I originally began posting in late spring because H and I had not been sexually intimate in over a year and had barely had sex since we've married. At that time, I swore up and down H wasn't having an affair (and, of course, he swore he wasn't either). I figured we'd just grown so far apart that we needed to rebuild the love. He said that he wasn't sure we'd ever be happy together and that while he wasn't saying we should separate or divorce immediately, he wanted to see if we could make it work. We started seeing a counselor and I found this site and the DB'ing books and started DB'ing like a champ. I got really good at making myself the best person I could be. I lost weight, I made friends, I had a renewed spirit, and, because I was DB'ing so well, I was starting to fall in love with H all over again. He was even starting to warm up to me...he was amazed at the changes I was making, he was future planning with me, telling me he loved me, etc. I felt that things were finally getting back on track...except that we weren't having sex.
Fast forward to October 23rd, 2007...
After many strange occurrences (i.e., him needing to switch from our ATT wireless family plan to a Verizon plan because his company offered a 20% discount; him needing to go home to visit his parents after he'd never had to do so before), one night we were watching a football game after a romantic dinner. He fell asleep on the couch and I noticed his new cell phone (the new Verizon one he got) on the stair ledge. Honestly and truthfully, I can say I was only looking at it because I was interested in the phone. But when I picked it up, the front screen said there were two text messages. Now, my H is not a texting kind of guy. Unable to resist the curiousity, I read the messages. One message said something like I miss you and the other said something like I loved the love we made last weekend in Courtland (this was one of the weekends he went home to see his parents). I was immediately gutted and....well, those of you who've been cheated on know the feeling. I'll spare you the dramatics.
Anyway...I woke him up, we were planning on divorce, yada, yada.
I found out that he'd cheated on me once before in December 2006 with a girl he'd met through a telephone chat line. They had sex once, but he wasn't attracted to her and broke it off. The girl he was having an affair with that I saw the texts from...well, he met her in May through a telephone chat line as well (surprise, surprise, late spring) and they had a very hot and heavy affair. He spent two weekends with her and spent countless hours on the phone and sent thousands of text messages (including illicit pictures) back and forth.
He'd also cheated on me once before we got married. So this makes three girls in all. Also, he's never been able to give up looking at porn, and he's been calling this telephone chat line since 2004. But he says he's only ever met the two girls he had the affairs with.
The Present
So now, he's been seeing a counselor, we've been doing Mort Fertel's Marriage Fitness, and he's also been going to SAA (Sex Addict's Anonymous) meetings weekly. He's not looked at porn or called the telephone chat line since the SAA meetings started. He's made full confessions to my parents, his parents. He's shown a lot of courage by admitting the things he did and by seeking out the SAA stuff and freely going to the meetings. He's even going to start a once-a-week 9 month intensive SAA course.
He's saying and doing all the right things. He says that the actions he took were all born of selfishness and that he was feeding his compulsions/addictions with these affairs and that they were always about feeding the addiction. He says that he loves and wants me. Considers me his soul mate, etc. Wants to build a family with me, wants to be a good man, doesn't want to be a cheater. He says he is learing that needs to put me and our marriage as our first priority and that with that mindset, all decisions are easy.
BUT HOW DO I BELIEVE HIM?!? Thank GOD I knew better than to have kids with him. Even though we've always looked like the perfect, loving couple, I knew our marriage wasn't right.
So, now...what do I do. Do I let go and try to live in the present and try to rebuild our marriage? Do I give him YET ANOTHER chance? Do I love him? Undoubtedly. DO I trust him? HELL, NO.
Another thing...we're having sex again. Several times a week and it's good like before we got married. In fact, we've probably had more sex in the past 2.5 months than we had in the previous 6 years. For sure.
I get overcome with the betrayal and with how he could have done this again and again to me. I don't know what to do.
Any and all advice is appreciated and needed and desired. I am confused and would love some some perspective.
Thank you,
ntl
Me: 30 H: 31 Together: 11.5 years Married: 6.5 years No kids
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
Thanks hurtin. I am going to try my hardest. I'm sticking with this group, though. I think I need to DB my heart out to see if we can make it. He is telling me in every way he knows how that he wants to make this work...I want to let him in.
But I know I need to squelch the need to just become totally wrapped up in him. I still feel I need to continue to GAL on my own. The healthier me I am, the better us we'll be.
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
ntl - Can an older, wiser (sadly) woman put her two cents in?
Do not make babies with this man.
Sure - he's doing the "right" things right now. i admire him for that. And if you want to stay married to him and help him fix his problem, that's your choice. But DO NOT make babies with this guy!!!!
Why do I say this? First of all, the risk that a cheater will repeat is very high. My H was not a sex addict. Just a slightly vulnerable, depressed and ambivalent guy who succumbed to an old girlfriend right before our marriage. Thought we had it resolved but because he didn't fully deal with his underlying issues, it happened again 17 years later when he turned 40. The effect on my kids was devastating - and my H never left the house, was/is an excellent dad, the situation turned around quickly, etc. Still, my kids bear scars.
Now, let's look at your H. This isn't just a little case of "gee, maybe there's something better out there, maybe I married too young" like my H. This isn't a case of a guy who let a woman friend at work get a little too close and next thing he knew he was "in love". This is a guy who was calling sleazy chat lines looking for hookups. Who risked giving you AIDS and who knows what else and didn't give it a second thought. (Yes, typical WASs take that risk too, but mostly they have relatively low-risk partners. H should have assumed ANY woman he met on a chat line is high risk!).And if you think a guy who does that only slept with two women, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
Anyway - I digress. My point here is this: you're young, you haven't started your family yet, and your H has already shown you his morals and coping skills are poor. Yes, he might get help and improve those things. But honestly, the risk that he will repeat at some point in his life is very, very high. Even if he beats his compulsions - what's the likelihood that when he hits 40 or 50 and has a midlife crisis that he's going to have the moral fortitude to resist an affair with his cute young secretary? Pretty slim, I'd say. So is it fair to your future children to choose this man to be their father? You may be willing to risk the pain of a recurrence, but are you willing to risk putting your kids through that?
Think about it. And set the bar very very high for your H if you do consider having kids. I sure wouldn't do it for a minimum of 2 years of complete transparency (tracking software on his computer, all cell phone bills to you, complete accountability).
You wouldn't make babies with a heroin addict who'd only been clean for a few moths, would you? Think the same way here.
ntl - Can an older, wiser (sadly) woman put her two cents in?
Do not make babies with this man.
Sure - he's doing the "right" things right now. i admire him for that. And if you want to stay married to him and help him fix his problem, that's your choice. But DO NOT make babies with this guy!!!!
Why do I say this? First of all, the risk that a cheater will repeat is very high. My H was not a sex addict. Just a slightly vulnerable, depressed and ambivalent guy who succumbed to an old girlfriend right before our marriage. Thought we had it resolved but because he didn't fully deal with his underlying issues, it happened again 17 years later when he turned 40. The effect on my kids was devastating - and my H never left the house, was/is an excellent dad, the situation turned around quickly, etc. Still, my kids bear scars.
Now, let's look at your H. This isn't just a little case of "gee, maybe there's something better out there, maybe I married too young" like my H. This isn't a case of a guy who let a woman friend at work get a little too close and next thing he knew he was "in love". This is a guy who was calling sleazy chat lines looking for hookups. Who risked giving you AIDS and who knows what else and didn't give it a second thought. (Yes, typical WASs take that risk too, but mostly they have relatively low-risk partners. H should have assumed ANY woman he met on a chat line is high risk!).And if you think a guy who does that only slept with two women, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
Anyway - I digress. My point here is this: you're young, you haven't started your family yet, and your H has already shown you his morals and coping skills are poor. Yes, he might get help and improve those things. But honestly, the risk that he will repeat at some point in his life is very, very high. Even if he beats his compulsions - what's the likelihood that when he hits 40 or 50 and has a midlife crisis that he's going to have the moral fortitude to resist an affair with his cute young secretary? Pretty slim, I'd say. So is it fair to your future children to choose this man to be their father? You may be willing to risk the pain of a recurrence, but are you willing to risk putting your kids through that?
Think about it. And set the bar very very high for your H if you do consider having kids. I sure wouldn't do it for a minimum of 2 years of complete transparency (tracking software on his computer, all cell phone bills to you, complete accountability).
You wouldn't make babies with a heroin addict who'd only been clean for a few moths, would you? Think the same way here.
Ellie
Oh, kml. You've voiced all of my concerns and fears and hurts over this thing. And it's true, my greatest fear is that we'll stay together, we'll have children, and years down the line, once the enormity of what he's become wears away, he'll cheat again. And then my kids will be messed up mentally because of it.
Believe me, I think about that daily. And so...I am having an IUD put in. Just to remove the possibility (and I am terrible at remembering to take pills).
I don't know...I struggle daily with this. He's a cheater; he's proved that unequivocally. But he's a lot of other good things, too. The thing is, people meet him and think he's the best guy ever. He cares about people, he's loving, he's the perfect guy. But he's a cheater. And I know it's caused him shame and grief, and fear.
Your comment about us being 40 or 50 and him being around his cute young secretary really struck a chord of fear in my heart. It did.
My faith, my morals, my intuition tells me that I have to make this marriage work, but I know I am only one part of this puzzle. I have told him that as long as I see him working on this marriage, I will, too. But that I am giving him a year to show me is becoming a changed man. I have told him that there are no guarantees. I am willing to work hard, try to rebuild myself as he is rebuilding himself, but I can't promise forever. Not yet.
Thank you for your perspective. It certainly is a harsh reality of what my future (and that of my children) could be. I am trying very hard not to be idealistic and naive. But I am trying to open my heart to forgiveness and love, because I think there is healing and hope in that, too. And if he proves he just can't be that man that I need. Hopefully we'll both be able to walk away in a safer, stronger, saner place.
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
I think Michelle quotes someone as saying "if you don't have an affair with your spouse someone else will".
I do not know the exact details and how much your H has struggled with being faithful, but it is sometimes some simple void or thing that can make the person seek something outside that should or has been part of the M for years.
I think that the sex thing is great as well, who knows maybe he was looking for some of that and instead of communicating with you found someone else.
I struggle with the trust issue, did so yesterday as well. I felt that my W was out there with the OM, don't know why. Then we had a very loving and real moment last night so I was probably wrong. That will take time.
Another marriage guru said that after an affair the marriage will change so one has to learn how to deal with that, it is so true, and we have not reached that point yet, our wedding song was Randy Travis forever and ever amen, and it ends, "if you wonder how long I will be faithful, let me tell you again, I am gonna love you forever and ever amen,
My W knows this and they always play it at our social functions so it is hard for my W,
I think Michelle quotes someone as saying "if you don't have an affair with your spouse someone else will".
I do not know the exact details and how much your H has struggled with being faithful, but it is sometimes some simple void or thing that can make the person seek something outside that should or has been part of the M for years.
I think that the sex thing is great as well, who knows maybe he was looking for some of that and instead of communicating with you found someone else.
I think you are so right here. After H and I got married (I was 23 and he was 25) we moved 750 miles away from home and he was immediately immersed in a very stressful, high profile, 75% travel job. I was in a big house, no friends, no job, and felt majorly alone and abandoned. Also, I was holding on to a lot of resentment from the time he cheated on me when we were dating. Add all those things up, and the sex life was nil.
After a while, I was so angry, he was afraid to even approach me. The rare times we did have sex, it was perfunctory and passionless. Also, I gained about 40 lbs. And though he says he still thinks I am beautiful, etc., it really affected the way I felt about myself.
Originally Posted By: On The Way back
Another marriage guru said that after an affair the marriage will change so one has to learn how to deal with that, it is so true, and we have not reached that point yet, our wedding song was Randy Travis forever and ever amen, and it ends, "if you wonder how long I will be faithful, let me tell you again, I am gonna love you forever and ever amen,
I love this song and think of it often in my head. I have it on my ipod and listen to it when I am feeling especially bad about my broken dreams of a completely healthy, happy marriage. I realize that's not reality, but I feel sorry for myself sometimes. I am trying to truly rebuild myself and to not feel so dependent on him for my happiness.
For example, if he doesn't call or text me for more than a few hours, I start freaking out and feeling like he's seeing someone else, or that he doesn't care. That's hard for me. I feel like my happiness or sadness hinges on whether or not he makes a connection with me. I don't want to feel that way!
Thanks so much for sharing with me. I've been following your story as well and I'm pulling for you!
Regards,
ntl
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
I feel the same way if I don't hear from my W or something. Early in our couples councelling she boldly and coldly said that if she wanted to see him again she would and there was nothing I could do about it. Talk about a sting.
Strange bed fellows and connections are made under the saddest circumstances.
I am pulling for you as well, and I am here if there is anything I can possibly do,
So, I just got back from a trip back east to see my family. H was with me there, too. In fact, he had market research to do so was at work most of the time. But I had plenty of time to see my family and to relax.
I had several moments of feeling intense fear and loss. I think it comes from feeling threatened all the time. Every time he's gone for more than a few hours, and I don't hear from him...I immediately think he must be cheating or doing something not healthy for our marriage. And I didn't used to be this girl! I was very independent and was fine without having constant reassurance. That's gone for now!
Unfortunately, I am now back home and H is on his way to Rome and Munich for the week to do more research. He's already prepped me by telling me he's going to have LONG days and that he's going to be holed up in a market research facility all day. I am so nervous for him to be gone, though. I hate it.
I've got lots of things planned for the next week and I hope to be busy, busy, busy. But still...in the dark of night...the monsters come out. And that's when it gets really hard.
On the plus side, I've got Divorce Remedy to reread (plus lots of other books I've been wanting to get in to), so I'll try to avoid those cheeseless tunnels as best I can! I'll certainly be practicing my thought-stopping techniques for sure.
Regards,
ntl
Me: 30 H: 32 Dating 10/96 Married 8/01 H PA's: Summer 97, 12/06, 5/07-10/23/07 My Saga
Every time he's gone for more than a few hours, and I don't hear from him...I immediately think he must be cheating or doing something not healthy for our marriage. And I didn't used to be this girl! I was very independent and was fine without having constant reassurance. That's gone for now!
I hate being this person. I feel H has robbed me of a lot of my self confidence and ability to have basic trust in people. I hope this comes back.
Busy is good. And yes, night time is hard, I do waaay to much thinking and overthinking... try to sleep and relax as much as possible.
