you wrote that your wife isn't capable of supporting your or "that I can feel safe in our relationship" - this is SO what my H is going through with me. He has said these exact words a LOT.
[although our sitch, in its entirety, is quite different from yours, as H is the one who had the A 2 yrs ago, but financially/emotionally he is completely bereft and alone without friends or a support system. He lost his job from the fallout, and has yet to find another. Shunned and ignored, because let's face it, people do not like Messy. You must be Walking in Victory for the most part, or people just don't want to know you, the drama gets old after a while. So the Man/Provider/Protector button is pushed over and over, day after day, for over 2 years now. He feels he Lost his Life as well, no one sees him for Who He Is, only What He Did, he is dying from the stress, and much of what you write I think he could as well, from his emotional/heart standpoint.
So there is some background to say- I read your thread aghast that I may indeed be like your W. In my mind I want to be, and perhaps fool myself that, I am more like AmyC than Mrs. Frank, but H continues to repeat that: he cannot count on me, I don't support him or 'build him up', he can't trust me with his heart, he cannot hand it to me because he doesn't trust that I will keep it safe (as I have not proven myself able to do so; I attacked viciously when cornered emotionally).
He is hurting, so much like you are, and I WANT to support him, but I have NO IDEA what that looks like on a regular basis, WHAT exactly I'm supposed to be doing. I have no role models in my childhood/life to look at for an example, and I guess I wanted to thank you a) for your honesty and b) for putting a mirror in my hand to show me something like what my H is feeling about me. I still feel stupid not knowing HOW to support him, part of me thinks 'sh*t, man, I'm STILL HERE' but that's no substitute for what he needs.
Point? Do I have one? I don't know anymore, but I am thinking of you and appreciate your willingness to put it out there, whatever it looks like.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
Talked to a friend who laid it out for me. Get YOUR crap together because that's what she's testing you on, and face it, if you don't get it together now, then when?
He thinks that it's the lack of feeling safe financially and emotionally that is the big problem for her, and that is the big problem for my self esteem also.
Still thinks that with changes in my attitude, there is still a chance she will be drawn back. I don't know. I think the more she sees a 'better' life away with her friends and 'like minded' people the more she will not want to stay.
Frank- One other thing! You aren't letting anyone here down by asking for help! Were all just a bunch of people riding up and down on our personal rides. Sometimes we can help, sometimes we need help. You're no different that the rest of us!
We all appreciate the help you give when you can give it. And we are all willing to help, if we can, when you need it!
Talked to a friend who laid it out for me. Get YOUR crap together because that's what she's testing you on, and face it, if you don't get it together now, then when?
He thinks that it's the lack of feeling safe financially and emotionally that is the big problem for her, and that is the big problem for my self esteem also. Your friend is dead on.
Still thinks that with changes in my attitude, there is still a chance she will be drawn back. I don't know. I think the more she sees a 'better' life away with her friends and 'like minded' people the more she will not want to stay. What her friends are representing to her is false. They just want someone else drawn into their lala land. I get the impression your wife COULD go either way, but her HEART is with her family. Get your crap together. Take that little vacation, Frank.
It is time for you to refire. For real this time. And for Frank.
Talked to a friend who laid it out for me. Get YOUR crap together because that's what she's testing you on, and face it, if you don't get it together now, then when?
He thinks that it's the lack of feeling safe financially and emotionally that is the big problem for her, and that is the big problem for my self esteem also.
Still thinks that with changes in my attitude, there is still a chance she will be drawn back. I don't know. I think the more she sees a 'better' life away with her friends and 'like minded' people the more she will not want to stay.
Frank man I know you're hurting but I want you to read the bold. I KNOW you're hurting.....I just want to repeat that so I don't seem like the cold callous B**** I've been called by the ex but the changes in your attitude should not be done on the basis of possibly drawing her back.
I kinda wonder what advice you'd give to a newbie who said they want to change to draw their spouse back. If the intent is to change for that purpose, how long will the changes stay in effect? Work out a plan to get yourselves set financially, show her that you can provide for her (in the meantime building YOUR self esteem) and if she still bolts, did she love you like she should?
I don't mean or want to be a hard @$$....and I'm sorry if I come across that way.
....Understand, that I can't, not be what I am I'm not the milk, and Cheerios in your spoon ~ Avril Lavigne ~ ..."Nobody's Fool"...
Frank man I know you're hurting but I want you to read the bold. I KNOW you're hurting.....I just want to repeat that so I don't seem like the cold callous B**** I've been called by the ex but the changes in your attitude should not be done on the basis of possibly drawing her back.
No, that is abundantly clear, I made changes in the past to bring her back because she was being destructive and I needed to save her - but forgot myself. I thought that she could save me and I waited but it never happened.
Grab something to drink, non-alcoholic, do you smoke? You’ll want to if you do, because some of the things I am going to say may upset you. I will be paraphrasing a lot here. Otherwise this will be amazing long with the quotes.
Frank all this time I am reading this and you are saving how you rescued others and saved your wife, but amazingly when it comes down to you, only you can save yourself or rescue yourself. So which one is it? Cause holy cow Superman, it is all about you. You get to rescue other people but no one can rescue you? Why is that?
This is a fundamental problem here. It really is based upon what you are writing. You saved your wife, but she cannot save you. You realize that the only person that can save you is you. You are right on that part.
Only you can save yourself, only you can control yourself. It is hubris to think otherwise. If I can save other people why can’t they save me? BS. You help others, and in many cases that help might be VERY timely. When your wife was helping you, and she was. When you said you feel alone, she stopped by your work, did you thank her, did you show appreciation? Was it enough to keep her doing it?
You are one of the heroes on this board, that is without a doubt a fact. To many people you are wise, helpful and insightful. When I see that you have posted to someone in trouble, I know that they are taken care of, I tend not to even check on them. Because of that it is harder to reach out for help, like we are letting people down, when our life is going to hell in a hand basket with an ablative bottom, how can we help others without sounding like hypocrites? Experience.
Frank, your word choice worries me. Fix, save, rescue. Did you actual DB? Or do you really feel that your actions actually brought your wife back? Because if you really strip away all the ‘save my marriage’ crap DBing is about helping oneself become an independent person again, and learning about communication. DBing is about working on yourself and becoming a better person, one that is attractive, hopefully to the spouse who left us.
How positive are you that your wife was done with her, was it an MLC? Her confusion at the very least. Always the big bad fear in Piecing. That it isn’t really over. Not fully. The OM may not be there, but is she out of the woods?
Being complacent is the worst thing you can do in piecing.
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Talk about things we might do together as if they will actually happen.
Get off you ass and make them happen!
Here is the problem I have with Piecing. I am so hyper in tune with what my wife wants, I feel taken advantage of because, yes she is back, I am an amazing f–ing husband now, and she is still the same wife she was prior to the MLC. Decent, but lets face it, not even close in comparission.
That is my fault, and my expectation. She got through her MLC, or hopefully almost is, she worked on getting through that problem, while I was improving myself and my communication, i.e. being more in tune with others. So here I am super husband, and my wife is…eh, a wife in my mind.
I know you’re upset and angry you don’t contradict yourself often, but you are a lot here in this thread. A very good sign how upset and conflicted you currently are. You are even doing perhaps the most stupid thing you can do, and that is imagining conversations your wife is having with her friends. That is a noob mistake. You tell others not to do it.
You are also making a horrible mistake in comparing your wife to Amy C. Don’t. Not many people would compare, and certainly not our WAW’s in any soon to be time frame. You are doing a disservice to your wife and your marriage, and yeah…I know exactly what the hell I am talking about. You can have my shoes for that walk they know the damn path.
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I know better now.
Do you? Really? You can only control yourself, others may be able to ‘help’ or open your eyes, but you can only save yourself.
Amy has my email, I asked her to give it to you, and maybe you feel like I am being harsh here, I make no apologies. Not many old timer guys in piecing, if you need a shoulder.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I have no idea wassup with piecing, I am all about the detaching.
I am all about saving your self.
So I may come here with that angle.
What is going on with you? What is going on with you, that you have left your self go by the waste side?
What is going on with Frank, that he is searching for some strength, but at least I know you will never lose your honor.
Not many can say that.
A little birdy told me to pass by, and I didn't know what to say.
I know that you man up when needed.
It may be needed, but for you this time.
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. I wish I could have shaken myself sooner, I tried but it took longer than I really had left. I wish she wasn't a quitter.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda if we have learned anything at all here, is that we can't control anyone except our selves.
So get your ass in gear, and get Frank shaken up to the point that he is the strong. Strong enough that he can be alone. Alone, but never without God, because thru Him all things are possible.
I am sorry for your hurt again, I am sorry for that sense of loss that sort of makes you crumble all over again.
But I have faith in you. You have been here long enough, to know that this too shall pass.
It is not like the first time she left, when you were clueless, and maybe had to much to drink.
You have knowledge, and knowledge is power.
You can do this, a little bit everyday. And we are all here to help.
Chin up, shoulders back , and get your work boots on, you got some work to do.
Live Simply Love Generously Care Deeply Speak Kindly Leave the rest to God
One thing I don't understand and I wondered if you could clear up for me - why should your W 'save' you? I really don't understand. In order to save my M, I had to save me and it is a continual job. I struggle with it every day. I am lucky in that my H is a strong person and will help me when I will let him in near enough to do that, but at the end of the day it HAS to be me. I drove my H to have his A by my behaviour; I attracted him back by the changes I made; (I didn't know about his A until he told me, when I was on MY journey to help ME).
You sound such a giving, articulate, guy who gets a real big 'kick'/ 'buzz'/'drive' from helping others which is great but you have gone and run out of juice. You ran out of juice and then kept running on empty. You need to see to you and THEN your W might be able to relax and stop checking out her options IF when you have saved yourself YOU still want to be with her. If you choose to live your life with a partner that needs to be 'protected' then you have got to be strong enough to give that protection, which means you have got to be strong; not pretend to be but actually be that strong person. Your postings on this thread, (which is all I have read of your sitch), imply that you faked what you did in the past to attract your W back. That it wasn't a natural, comfortable way of being and so you have been sinking. That could just be the way it reads rather than the actual position.
As an aside really, if you are having financial difficulties, how is your W paying for all these flights?
Frank, what do you want?
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
but the changes in your attitude should not be done on the basis of possibly drawing her back.