I don't understand that logic. Why would I trust a man who cannot be vulnerable with me, who cannot be emotional with me, who says one thing but does another?
You didn't trust him so you asked him for assurances. Let's say your H was a wife child abusing alcoholic. Would you have needed assurances from SoldierBoy then? You demonstrated to SoldierBoy that you trusted your H more than him. Which was emotionally honest of you because you did.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I guess I just disagree. My husband would lie, steal and commit murder to protect his kids, without thinking much about it. And like LFL, I've seen many women without a spark of "maternal instinct." I think you just assume it's universal because you happen to have it.
I'm not saying we have to agree, I just think you are missing my point. Genetic defects occur. I've seen instances of wild/domestic females rejecting their young; I've seen breeding mares destroyed if they didn't 'get over it' and find their 'mommy gene.'
I'm not saying men wouldn't lie, steal, cheat, etc., to protect a child he knows is his... that falls under the realm of his honor and what he believes to be his.
The connection to the child comes through his honor. The connection a woman has to her child comes through her maternal instinct. In a woman, there is nothing higher than her maternal instinct; if a woman has no maternal instinct, I'd say she probably has other honor/loyalty issues as well. I also said, that because we are maternal/loyal, it can cause us problems in other areas of our lives... especially what men might view as honorable.
We don't respect males or females who mistreat or abandon their kids. But we tolerate it less from females.
The connection to the child comes through his honor. The connection a woman has to her child comes through her maternal instinct.
I'm not a man but from what I've seen a man's love for his kids comes from exactly the same place as a woman's. My heart. Flesh of my flesh, blood of my blood. Given to me to love, protect and cherish, and make strong to face the world. A man I know said about his daughter "looking at her is like seeing the ocean for the first time". I don't think his feeling of connection needed to detour through his honor. It was just there.
Maybe the fathers on this board can chime in from their perspective. I'd be interested to hear how they feel.
And, like I said earlier... just because you see that kind of behavior... does it mean you respect it? How does it make you feel? Would you call those women honorable? I wouldn't call them loyal, either, and that kind of supports your point, doesn't it?
Well I hope you didn't think I was supporting that kind of behavior. That wasn't my point at all. I was just saying your point about maternal instinct probably isn't as common/strong as you think.
(Corri) I don't care if I respect you or not if the safety of my baby is in question.
Does this extend to all your (and by extension, any woman's) undeveloped ovum? If so, then what you guys are saying makes sense. Or could at least serve as a useful model.
I'd say in a general sense, yes. I grew up with the solid belief that I'd never have kids. Didn't want them. I wasn't maternal, didn't have an interest in babies... I wanted a career, wanted all kinds of things before a family or kids...
But when that... biological clock... goes off? I also noticed things about myself during my pregnancy... right before I went into labor, through labor... that I did, that I felt...
Women don't need hospitals and doctors to have babies. It all happens, whether I want it to or not. That doesn't make me a good mom or a bad mom... it means there is something coded into me, as a female. It means... I'll figure it out.
Throwing higher order thinking and modern day society in on top of that... well... now we have things to debate ad nausea.
Well I hope you didn't think I was supporting that kind of behavior. That wasn't my point at all. I was just saying your point about maternal instinct probably isn't as common/strong as you think.
I wish you'd get that 'attacking' tone you apply to my writing out of your head. I was just kind of agreeing with you and taking it further...
Does a man know how to have a baby? Does he have the capability?
As a woman, I may not know 'how' to have a baby... but I don't have to know how to have one in order to 'do' it... and there is something coded into me that will figure it out. That is the biology I am talking about.
You didn't trust him so you asked him for assurances. Let's say your H was a wife child abusing alcoholic. Would you have needed assurances from SoldierBoy then? You demonstrated to SoldierBoy that you trusted your H more than him. Which was emotionally honest of you because you did.
I don't know if I'd say that necessarily. Trust/loyalty, those are things that need to be earned. Plus, I don't know if H and I will ever truly embrace those concepts. I don't think it is necessary for a good, happy M. It is necessary to be honorable to each other, but not necessarily trust each other. Very different. If we are good to each other, the M and loyalty takes care of itself. I will honor him by having him my physical and emotional "go to" person. He will do the same. And to bring up the example of a child abusing alcoholic is just silly to me. I would not be with such a person Ever. I honor myself too much for that insanity. And even more, I honor myself too much now to even think that soldier guy was worthy of me. Clearly I had a screw loose for a while.
The connection to the child comes through his honor. The connection a woman has to her child comes through her maternal instinct.
I'm not a man but from what I've seen a man's love for his kids comes from exactly the same place as a woman's. My heart. Flesh of my flesh, blood of my blood. Given to me to love, protect and cherish, and make strong to face the world. A man I know said about his daughter "looking at her is like seeing the ocean for the first time". I don't think his feeling of connection needed to detour through his honor. It was just there.
Maybe the fathers on this board can chime in from their perspective. I'd be interested to hear how they feel.
SG, What this man said about his daughter...I sooo know the feeling and it really has nothing to do with honor. It can be about honor, but in the true sense....like you said, it's just there!
I don't look into my girl's eyes and do what it takes to protect and provide for them out of duty or honor...."because it's the right thing to do." No! I do it out of love....just like a mother would. They are apart of me just as much as they are apart of the mom.
I was just kind of agreeing with you and taking it further...