Real growing and healing

[frank_D]

So your wife sucks at being supportive.
Hell, maybe she sucks all the way around.
What if she does?

How does that let you off the hook as far as your responsibility to yourself, Frank?

I never said it let me 'off the hook'. I've been saying all along how I've been stuck, and the dynamic between she and I was keeping me crazy. Here I am taking responsibility but you know, for the past 2 months I have been TRYING to get back up, and I would not drink for a couple nights until the anxiety and hurt and real fear would just be so overwhelming I couldn't absorb it any more. Then I would feel bad, she would be angry but 'supportive' and the cycle repeats.

And I told her "I hate this, I have to stop these feelings I get but I don't know how". And she said she supported me.

And in November we had a big argument about support, and affairs and how I felt alone and when was she really going to help me. And she said "I can't take this any more, I'm so done".

We talked later, I told her again how much I hated my life and I needed this to change and please help me and she said she would by making sure she came into my office often during the day to give me a hug or somehow let me know I was ok when the anxiety was growing. That lasted a couple days and she stopped.

So yeah, I fcked up because I failed to find a way to support myself. I built this expectation that someone else would help me. I ASKED for help from her, I didn't just sit there I ASKED. Her only 'idea' was 'go to AA' or 'go see a doctor'.

And what about your responsibility to your daughters?
You owe it to your daughters to get your sh*t together by whatever means necessary. No matter how much blood, sweat and tears it requires. They are looking at you and deciding what kind of men to pick to be their husbands. If the way you are right now would not make an acceptable son-in-law, I suggest you find the man inside you that is.

I know that. More than anything. I didn't intend to 'fall down' it just happened gradually, one thing after another goes wrong and she isn't any help. In fact, she let her business stay small and only now does she decide she needs to grow it - probably so she can support herself.

How many times do I have to say that I fcked up because I knew in my heart that SHE couldn't help me but I didn't know who COULD.

How many times did I say to her:

I feel so alone

I feel so alone

I feel so alone.

It hurts so much every day, I want to die. But I don't.

How many times did I have to tell her this?

The only thing that kept me going was knowing that other people were being helped by me. But I felt so alone.

And I told her. I told her. It's not like I sat there at night drinking and saying 'piss of'. I told her.

And right now from where I sit I AM alone. She's playing this 'keep my distance while I talk to my friends and get enough courage to ACTUALLY leave because I know there are men out there who will pay attention to me and aren't in the sh*thole place Frank is in' game.

It's part of her 'Spiritual growth' and she probably deserves to be happy. I have no idea what I deserve right now, all I know is that she won't be able to give my daughters a decent life on her own so I'll have to pull myself up again, under almost as bad a situation as before, but this time I will NOT try to fix anything with her any more.

She is no AmyC, but I am a 'frank_d' somewhere inside.

I just feel so alone. I want this to be over.

[frank_D]

So, what should I do with her?

I guess I should stop saying 'I love you' since it's not really what she seems to want to hear.

Stop reaching out to her, giving hugs. If she wants anything she'll let me know. She didn't seem to have a problem this afternoon kissing me, but later she did have a saying she loved me.

Be friendly, watch TV together or the other pointless things we do.

Sleep in the same bed. Pay the bills when I can. Talk about things we might do together as if they will actually happen.

We're really a bad match. Like she said, as long as we're together we don't seem to be able to fix ourselves. She's still the hurt little girl and I needed her, but she wasn't able to be there.

[frank_D]

Well, I'm here alone tonight with the girls who are both sick. She's at her friends house since she travels there to do massage once a month. Her friend will talk with her about how she has to do what's best for her and the girls and how frank will never be able to get beyond the place he's at as long as you're together.

I can hear her voice "Honey, you deserve to be happy". Same thing she said when she was 'in love' with OM.

Not 'what can I do to help? How do we support Frank? How do we heal your marriage once and for all?'

People don't do that in real life. They help you run.

Maybe a miracle will happen and she'll come home tomorrow and realize she missed me and that maybe her love actually IS enough to help us both get through all this. Maybe she'll really decide to step up to the plate like I have.

I guess I'll pray for that to happen.

And no, I haven't been drinking

[ACJ]

Frank I never posted to you before. I have read most of this thread but not all of it.

I just wanted to say that I know how you feel about being a 'guardian' but not having your own 'guardian angel'. That is me to a tee. I'm not in the same position as you. My H left for a second time and a D for us is almost inevitable (although not what I want). I'm having to be my own guardian angel and in part succeeding. I'm also having to learn to let go of things that although important are not in the grand scheme of things the most important.

I can't profess to be anywhere near as insightful as you appear to be but just wanted to let you know that I understand your sentiments.

[Virtually_Handsome]

Oh, boy. I must say I never thought I would be posting TO frank_d! And I'm sorry I am. But Amy made me do it!

I have to first admit to not being familiar with your whole situation, I feel like a read a lot of it some time ago, but at the time, I don't think I knew a frank_d from a james_k. So, this is more based on what see, just in this thread. So there may be things that I should be taking into account that I am not.

I feel like I'm reading about someone who is depending on their W to define their worth, and their happiness. This surprises me, a lot! I understand that you want support from you W, but obviously the support you want she can't give you, at least for now. This is where my lack of background kicks in, but it sounds to me that she isn't really through whatever journey she's taking. So, it may not be that she doesn't want to support, but more that she can't, she doesn't even know how. I think she is still lost, looking for something she may never find.

I don't really know where this leaves you, other than needing to be strong for yourself. Maybe not DBing for the marriage, but for you, like 'we' tell newcomers. She isn't going to help yo be the frank_d you want to be. You need to find your center, and get back to yourself. Without looking to her for validation. Get back to your own strength, and what you know makes you the best you can be. In the end, maybe it involves her, and maybe it doesn't, but I think for now it has to be 'all about you', she can watch from the sideline if she wants to.

Good luck to you frank_d, I know you have helped a lot of us here, I hope we can return the favor!

[*KS*Chick*]

Frank!!! First I wanted to offer you a smile. How are ya young man?

Now - tell me a few things please. Do you have any thing that you want to do for you? What kinds of qualities or skills would you like to possess? Anything fun, different, exciting or just different?

Check into those. See what you need to accomplish those. Make small goals....and maybe small goals to get to those small goals.

Maybe a meeting wouldn't hurt. You'd meet some friends, find an accountability partner, and be taking intiative to help yourself.

As far as your wife and what you should do - watch tv or stop showing affection....I think you should do what feels right. (but remember I'm divorced and my ex is dating the cow he was "friends" with before our marriage busted up...)

I just wanted you to know we're here for you, we're listening and we want to help. Me, personally - I just feel like I don't have the help to give anymore. I'm dried up - I didn't bust a divorce, but I do like me a lot better than I did....that's something I think. And I'm content. GOD help me I can't TELL you the last time I was actually content.

Best wishes Frank and I'm praying for you

[Sara]

Frank,

I agree with the advice the others have given you. You have to pull yourself together for you. I think AmyC's idea of taking a few days off by yourself to get in touch with your inner self is a good idea.

I don't know your wife, but she sounds like a hippie from the 70's to me. I keep thinking, "what's she smoking?" She has that old 70's free spirit mentality. It was attractive on young people in the 70's. It's a lot less attractive on people you expect to have reached maturity in life. But so be it. That is her, she is on her quest to do what she wants for herself. So she will travel around and give and take massages where she finds them.

You talk on and off about the financial problems, and I think that is where your real problem is. On that, I am not good for advice. There is nothing so depressing as not being able to pay your bills. So I think this is where you need to focus your energy. I'd say, do your best to separate things financially from your wife, unless she is helping financially. And then if the business is failing, make a decision to either fix it or do something else. You sound like a resourceful guy who would be an asset to another company. Sometimes it is good to work for someone else and collect a paycheck without the responsibility for the whole business. Ah, but I said I'm not good at financial advice, so I won't go any further.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you Frank.

[frank_D]

AmyC:

You see how similar our lives have been? Jeff and I are different in a lot of ways, but we both went through the same thing of hurting the ones we loved because we were overcome by our own pain and managed poorly. Then we were forced to pull every ounce of strength we had while we were still down to 'stand' for our wives. After that we were still empty and still lost, still hurt but now we had more hurt to deal with.

The difference is Jeff has Amy.

I have me, and a wife who loves me but can't help me, and is choosing to save herself. I accept that, she's the one I chose because of her kind and gentle soul. That comes with a lot of responsibility and I failed. a man should not need a wife to have to do the things that Jeff and I ask of them but some of us are so damaged at some point that we NEED them to help us. I just chose the one who couldn't and festered inside wondering why.

You can help Jeff. Just be present, that's all. He's alone and he's hurting. Just be present. Be in his presence as much as possible in a loving way. You keep being afraid to insert yourself into his life, like you have to wait to 'be invited'.

Your his WIFE for gods sake, you don't need an invitation to love him. Get your a-ss over there with a plan to just be 'love'. NO matter what.

Save him Amy, one of us has to win and I am so spent It's going to be all I can do to save myself during this storm. Do it Amy. This is the reason we met. Kindred spirits learn from each others mistakes and successes. I guess I've held this back from you but I don't care any more. You are in the same position my wife is in. I'm TELLING you what I NEED from her and letting you know it's what JEFF needs from YOU.

I NEED to FEEL loved a LOT to help neutralize the hurt and pain and mistrust and everything. I need to feel like I'm the most important person in her life even when I'm being the 'prickly pear'. My wife can't do that, she just can't.

If he can't accept love from you then he's a lost soul and there's nothing you or anyone can do to change that.

Damn you Amy I'm going to make you fix this if it's the last thing I do. Don't you give up on Jeff, it's not too late.

There's nothing more I can do except take care of myself, something that is long overdue.

ACJ:

When I was a kid living in the hell hole that was my life I latched on to the idea that I had two guardian angels and that no matter what, I'd always be ok. I'd always get through adversity and 'survive'. And I always do. But I'm tired of the fighting.

[COG]

FrankD,

It's a tough spot you're in, I can sympathize with you. I agree with other's that maybe you're giving your W too much credit for your current emotional state. It's not about HER. She's weak and flawed just like the rest of us. She doesn't necessarily need saving, just love (1C:13). And she's not in the business of saving and supporting, that's what Jesus does best.

Be mindfull of other forces that could be contributing to your emotional state. Finances are a huge factor in tearing down a man's self esteem. We're born and raised to provide for our families, and when we're not productive our self esteem deteriorates. Before we know it we're attacking those closest to us, blaming our misery on others. Well that's what happens to me anyway.

Frank, you're really focusing on the half empty glass right now. Things could be worse, alot worse. If you don't believe me then just go visit your local hospice, or childrens hospital. There are people fighting for there last breath as I'm writing this. We still have alot of fight left in us.

It's easy to get depressed buddy. I get that way too sometimes, but we've just got to keep moving forward, accepting life as it comes, and trying to find peace and joy in the moments. Stay close to your kids right now, let your W be who she is, and start supporting Frank today. Go take a long walk down the beach, and force yourself to smile. Find a mirror, look yourself in the eye, and say "I love you". Ask your God to save you, to lift you up, and to guide you through this challenge.

God Bless The Struggle,

COG

[frank_D]

W called to check in this morning, making sure the kids were being sent to school properly. Said she didn't do her second massage with her friend because she fell asleep after dinner - still dealing with Jet lag going from Rome to California.

I asked her if she had connected with the people she wanted to do teaching with - if you recall my old sitch they were the ones who run the retreats she went to where she met OM. They are believers in the 'find your path no matter what' philosophy.They're also a bit dysfunctional, but she realizes that about them.

Anyway, she said she talked to the woman who she is sort of 'friends' with and they just talked 'girl talk' which means she talked about her current crisis I'm sure. I didn't ask.

Said she woke up at 4 am which has been typical (fall asleep early, wake up at 4 am) lately. Says she just sat and did some thinking. I didn't ask.

'Good byes' were simple. I didn't say 'I love you' and neither did she.

I woke up this morning in a panic, thinking that it was all over for sure, that she is in that 'shut off my feelings and do what I want to do for myself' mode which makes it possible for her to leave even though she 'loves me'.

But I kept thinking to myself that she does love me, and unlike last time there is no 'OM' to help her disconnect from me and the girls. But all the other players are still there. Same girlfriends, same friends.

Does it really matter though? I mean, is she really required to stay with me? I remember that one of her friends said she was a very loyal person and didn't think she'd pursue OM 2 years ago.

Maybe I beat that out of her too. I wish I could have shaken myself sooner, I tried but it took longer than I really had left. I wish she wasn't a quitter.

I guess I'm just looking for something to 'hang on to'. some 'hope' that says she isn't running away yet.

Just like last time, and the time before that and again and again.