Why does the maternal instinct make you dishonest (I'd use the term "undependable" instead, but I think we're on the same page)?
Because it trumps any intent, in word or deed, I may make to another. Not out of maliciousness, but because... that's just the way it is. I don't think I have a definitive answer on this one; we're going to have to ask the Big JC when we all get to heaven. But I can tell you, even the most hard core scientists don't mess with this one. Darwin covered it in one short sentence. Due to the maternal instinct, the female will _______ (FIB).
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The only thing I can come up with is that your complete and utter commitment to your offspring, whether they exist or not, makes you realize at some level that everything else is relatively unimportant.
I wouldn't say unimportant. I think it is the very indication of just how important it actually is to a female... now whether females will own that or not, is something else. The feminist theory completely unravels under the weight of it, and they know it.
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Honor and dependability are no big deal...you *know* you're a good person because you know in your bones that you'll completely sacrifice yourself for your offspring.
Uhm... I think so. Awareness of this is often what separates the girls from the women... and I can tell you... when a girl runs headlong into this part of herself, it can be a quite confusing and painful time for her. Hormones/instinct often confound rational thought. <-- boy that was like the understatement of the year... but why we look down upon that, why we expect women to 'handle' it, stuff it... hold it in so that men/boys don't have to see it/deal with it... is BEYOND me. My son says to me all the time... "Mom, you're acting like a Mom." Yes. That is what I am.
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Why are married women dependable? If a regular single woman is dependable, does that mean she's actually into you?
I would say in both instances, you have effectively cultivated her loyalty... in the former, the contract has been made and she is secure in your loyalty (though she will test is constantly to make sure it is secure and in place). In the latter, she is waiting... testing... making up her mind... seeing what else is there that will strengthen the bond...
For male and female 'friends,' loyalty still needs to be present for the woman... probably not so much for the man. When men and women remain 'friends,' something is present that will not allow the R to develop further, and both are usually very aware of whatever that is... 'friends with benefits,' are a man and a woman both aware that no R is forthcoming, and the boundaries are usually clear and acceptable to both.
I see letting somebody play with my bunny as more of a desire to gain my trust (not loyalty which would involve the lioness) which absolutely makes sense as a starting place.
Ah. I see my problem. No wonder why my bunny and lioness go out together all the time.
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Of course, my sister and I spotted a prostitute wearing bright, bright red stiletto heel boots today and we agreed that they were very "monkoness" or "lionkey".
{Cokes spews on the computer screen} Uhm... okay. Mo. You got me. You have rendered Corri speechless. I have no response to putting that statement and 'me' together in the same thought realm... lots to think about there.
I'm pretty sure I agree with you. The lioness's primary job is protecting her young but the lioness is the only animal who will honor a contract. Therefore, a man has to make himself vulnerable (not weak!) before a woman will make true contract with him. If a man reveals himself as vulnerable (not weak!)to a woman she will see it as a sign of desire for such contract.
That explains so much about me to me...
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In the example BB gave, his honorable verbal statement of no desire for contract should have superseded any signs given otherwise therefore the Court of Woman rules "her bad".
Unless he was giving off mixed signals and didn't know it... or the two of them kept at it for a time, just to be sure... OR... like you said, she just should have known when to quit. But I do give her credit in the end for being honest enough to say that they couldn't be friends.
I liked your story. It showed a man in emotional control and a supportive woman.
Thanks. I cast Patrica Neal as the woman because I was kind of thinking of the scene from The Homecoming when the father finally makes it home for Xmas. Of course, the classic Xmas movie scene that shows a man in emotional control is Jimmy Stewart in It's A Wonderful Life putting the banister back together rather than throwing it.
I'm not going to try to convince you anymore about strong puppy but maybe one of my favorite authors can do a better job. Grace Paley wrote the following poem just before she died at age 84 last year. It's from her collection entitled "Fidelity"
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I Met A Seducer
One day a seducer met a seducer now said one.. what do we do fly into each other's arms said the other.. ugh said one.. they turned stood back to back.. one looked over one's shoulder.. smiled shyly.. other turned seconds too late.. made a lovelier shy smile.. oh my dear said other my own dear.. said one
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
When BF says that a woman needs to tend her own fences... to a woman that means that his loyalty to her is in question, and her own loyalty fades... she'll knock her own fence down. If a woman is loyal to her man... she doesn't even NEED a fence... she will have no desire whatsoever to wander anywhere... unless the safety of her child is in question.
So a loyal woman doesn't need a fence, except that she does because he demonstrates his loyalty by putting one up and she doubts his loyalty and loses hers if it isn't there?
Of course if I move the fence or add barbed wire just to make her feel secure, that's placating. It's my fence, and I can't put her in charge of it.
Also, would you say that the maternal instinct has always driven a woman to mother her offspring as long as she can get away with, and it's just now becoming a problem for much the same reason that obesity is just now becoming a problem (i.e., we eat too much because we can, and our ancestors didn't because they couldn't, and moms baby their adult offspring and their so-called "adolescent" offspring because they can and previous generations of moms couldn't afford to)?
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
(Mojo) The lioness's primary job is protecting her young but the lioness is the only animal who will honor a contract. Therefore, a man has to make himself vulnerable (not weak!) before a woman will make true contract with him.
That's certainly not how it appears to me. I'd say the lioness is the only animal who knows how to honor a contract (and by "contract" here I mean being dependable, not just being faithful), but doing so makes her very grumpy so she just doesn't do it as a general rule. Eventually one or all of the animals find a boy they like to interact with and everybody goes merrily along until some member of the menagerie, for sake of example let's say the monkey, breaches a contract with the boy (assume it's an overt contract; covert contracts are an entirely different system of law). If the boy then makes it quite clear to the monkey that he's perfectly able and willing to close this zoo down when contracts are breached, the monkey will snap the lionness back into focus.
Then it seems like the boy has to repeat the process until either he gets tired of it or the lionness decides it's better to stay on top of the contracts than take sh!t from the other animals all the time.
And even then the boy's gotta deal with a grumpy lionness from time to time.
If the boy lets the animals breach the contracts, before long the lionness notices, packs up the rest of the zoo and moves on along.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
So it's like one of those puzzles involving people in one village who only tell the truth and people in another village who only lie. I'm too mush-brained at the moment to figure out the answer but I'm sure it's out there.
The premise is that you come to a fork in the road and standing there is one person from each of the villages (the only lying and only truth-telling). You need to know which is the correct fork to take (I guess one leads to Oz and the other to a live volcano or something).
What question(s) do you need to ask of which villager to get the correct answer?
The answer is that you ask this question (only one) of EITHER of the villagers: "If I ask the other villager which fork to take, what will he say?" and then no matter what that villager answers, take the OTHER fork.
So a loyal woman doesn't need a fence, except that she does because he demonstrates his loyalty by putting one up and she doubts his loyalty and loses hers if it isn't there?
No. If a man looks at a woman and says... 'tend your own fences'... that's exactly what she'll do. And she'll do it in her own way. More than likely he won't like it one bit how she decides to do it.
If he cultivates her loyalty... the word/concept of fence never even enters the discussion, nor is it questioned. Unless the safety of her child is in question.
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Also, would you say that the maternal instinct has always driven a woman to mother her offspring as long as she can get away with, and it's just now becoming a problem for much the same reason that obesity is just now becoming a problem
Your are talking about two different things. The maternal instinct and 'the art of mothering.' One... you do, and you'd figure it out, based on instinct. The other is a method of child rearing, fostered by a higher-thinking, societal species.
That's certainly not how it appears to me. I'd say the lioness is the only animal who knows how to honor a contract (and by "contract" here I mean being dependable, not just being faithful), but doing so makes her very grumpy
If he cultivates her loyalty... the word/concept of fence never even enters the discussion, nor is it questioned. Unless the safety of her child is in question.
Maybe to clarify... If he cultivates her loyalty... the word/concept of fence never even enters the discussion, nor is it questioned....
because her loyalty IS the fence. That's what her fence is built out of... just as a man's sense of honor is out of what his fence is built.
Now... any other fence the man might want to build... a woman is pretty much cool with... as long as you don't fall or get hurt while doing it, and you are home in time for supper.
