The particular point I am making about the puppy dog is that it is important for a man to allow himself to be vulnerable (manifest as strong puppy)in a relationship because it shows that he trusts a woman to be kind.
I'm laughing so hard I can barely type, once I can breath, I will go read the rest of this thread. Thats the second time this place made me laugh so hard I dropped my 'puter.
LMAO.
I only wish I could show you Mojo, the txts and chats, and emails I get from women testing out how far they can push the -act super *shi^^y* to see what he will do- behavior. As a general rule, the more seeking validation they are the shi^^ty the behavior. X proved that to the nth degree. Heck I proved that same dynamic after she invalidated our M with the A. I still haven't gotten past the loss of control I showed on her BDay. Who was that angry nutjob. I don't know why, but I cant seem to get past the fact, its not my job to teach a grownup how to act respectful. If I chose to, I could easily get away with extremes of gross disrespect -- just as a general rule. Maybe Ill post a collage of them together some time. Just so you can sit there with your mouth open, and shake your head in disbelief at the venom and virulence over nothing, just to try and get a reaction.
it shows that he trusts a woman to be kind.LMAO. Yeah I trust them. Because I walk softly and carry a big stick. LMAO.
The only reason a man should show puppy dog in a R, is to show he can and will take it away, when she tries to kick the puppy. (and she will. guaranteed.) She only wants to see it to test that he will not let her hurt it. Deida explains this much better. I don't have to show the puppy, cause I already know what they will do with it, and I don't feel compelled to test and find out. I liked your story. It showed a man in emotional control and a supportive woman.
You have a well developed cow for various reasons. That is why you don't have as much of a problem being kind. Thats pretty damn rare though. ok back to reading
You know... I hate to say it... if some guy were honest enough with me to say that, and really do that... he may very well and truly catch my interest. Guys tend to coddle the woman they are with, and tell them sweet little lies... which is cool, because at least I know I am being lied to, and I am smart enough to get it... and it makes parting a bit easier, because at least he is doing the gentlemanly thing for me in trying to ease the blow (as if there is a blow to be eased)...
Hmmmm...your bunny is strong and you are vibing lioness so you are contemplating a game of Rogue Reformation. Well, I do think that if anyone could do it, it would be you. If you really want a challenge, IMO, the toughest rogue to reform would be the Self-Referential Sweet-Talker. That kind of guy is as smooth as a billiard ball, no footholds at all.
Anyways, I was thinking about a topic you brought up previously which was roughly - What is the older (yet still completely hot) single woman looking for in a relationship? Now, according to my reading and general common sense, I would say that there are a few factors that drive females more towards commitment than males:
1) Higher levels of the "in love" chemical oxytocin post-sex.
2) The biological drive towards nesting in order to have/raise children.
3) Societal pressures along the lines of "Don't be a sl*t." double-standards.
There are other factors that drive towards commitment such as a romantic outlook or desire for continued companionship but I would say that these are equally shared by both sexes.
So, we are both women who are self-aware about "in love" chemicals and therefore able to "handle" them and we don't want more children. I don't know about you but now that I've processed the little hissy fit that Cobra inspired, I don't give a fig about #3 either. Even my semi-grown children just find it amusing that I appear to have become a serial dater so I face very little societal censure. So where does that leave us? I'm down with your Rogue Reformation plan but I think I've got one that's more foolproof. I call it my Rogue Creation plan. Here is the rough outline:
1) Find man who vibes "nice guy" rather than Wolf but is attractive for other reasons. Example: If I met pre-BB, single version of Chrome- Intelligent, interesting job and I saw him in athletic pants (LOL).
2) Let him play me bunny until he feels secure.
3) Play him monkey until he turns Wolf.
4) Play him cow.
5) Gracefully fall out of the relationship in my zoo keeper uniform.
The advantages of this plan are that during Step 2 I get to enjoy being chased by an attractive man. During Step 3 I get all sorts of fresh virgin wolf action. During Step 4 I maintain my self-validation/reputation for being a nice person by baking pies and such. In conclusion at Step 5 the relationship ends with good karma all around and I have rendered the world a better place sexually by rendering one male more wolfish. Of course, if I am smart I will overlap Step 4 with one guy with Step 1 for the next guy so as not to go too long without charming affectionate male companionship and/or hot sexual action.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Hey gals - watch out for any guy you get by "vibing across a room". That is exactly how I got both H's. They have given me lovely children and have their strong points but whew, lotsa problems too. Granted, I've told you before that H is a keeper, and he is, but wow - part of what brought both of them from across the room was all those chemicals. OTOH - perhaps if I had recognized better what was going on I would have had a better result. I think I might have still ended up with H but what I shoulda done was date H and a couple other guys too. If I had delayed the sex and upped the competition we might have different dynamic going. I know I'm not single anymore but this thread is lots more fun than being mired in the reality of people's day to day with R's that need so much work.
As a general rule, the more seeking validation they are the shi^^ty the behavior.
You say validation like it is a bad thing. Are they needing you to confirm the truthfulness of their existence, their egos, their worth as human beings, or could it possibly be, given your penchant for cryptic language and declarations of super human control... they might just be poking you to see if you are human?
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I don't know why, but I cant seem to get past the fact, its not my job to teach a grownup how to act respectful.
Of course it isn't. And if they are not acting respectful, it is good that you move them along, or they move along. Best for all concerned, I'd think. Why would you, or they, want to be involved in that kind of thing?
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The only reason a man should show puppy dog in a R, is to show he can and will take it away, when she tries to kick the puppy. (and she will. guaranteed.)
Eye roll. I get your self-control thing... it's just your general lack of regard for the female gender that seeps through most of your posts that makes me shake my head.
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... a man in emotional control and a supportive woman.
It's when the above is not a two way street, as many people on this board experience, that you run into problems....
... a man in emotional control and a supportive woman.
Oh, and just another thought on this one... and Mo's story... I personally look at that 'supportive' there as a woman who was 'validating' her man when he was feeling out of sorts... sometimes I see the two as interchangeable (validation/support), and I certainly see both as necessary components of LTRs.
I call it my Rogue Creation plan. Here is the rough outline:
1) Find man who vibes "nice guy" rather than Wolf but is attractive for other reasons. Example: If I met pre-BB, single version of Chrome- Intelligent, interesting job and I saw him in athletic pants (LOL).
2) Let him play me bunny until he feels secure.
3) Play him monkey until he turns Wolf.
4) Play him cow.
5) Gracefully fall out of the relationship in my zoo keeper uniform.
Lol. But the real question is, why fall out of that R at all? You get to utilize all zoo animals and hopefully everyone ends up happy, no?
Such a lot of good stuff in this thread. My H has always displayed these weak puppy/crossover into mean wolf behaviours. I am hoping to see a little less of it from now on. And I'm certainly not planning to respond in a cow like manner any more. Mo, you certainly have coined some new terminology, it's already crossed the atlantic via me and now via your friends, so just listen up for it in Oprah. And you and Corri should PUBLISH that book before someone else does.
Corri, I loved your story about your boys and watching them grow into men who can take the hard knocks. My S8 decided the other day to take the dog for a walk. We live in an urban area and he hasn't really been out on his own before, except one time when he managed to get on the bus ahead of the au pair and the driver shut the door, so he took himself to school. Anyhow he was cross with me about something and said he was going out. I didn't expect him to be out more than 5 minutes and wasn't going to argue the point with him. Anyhow I got involved in what I was doing with D6 and totally forgot that he'd gone out and thought he was upstairs playing on the puter. Half an hour or so later came a big knock on the door. It was S. He'd taken himself and the dog on a big walk around the neighbourhood, crossed several roads and was considering hopping on a bus to take the dog to the park. He'd had a bit of Christmas money in his pocket and treated himself to a bag of sweets. And he looked and felt about 10 feet tall. I was amazed and proud and totally didn't tell him off about it.
For the rest of the day he was a total sweet heart and was even nice to his sister - LOL!
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
(Mojo) If you straight-up told the girl you weren't interested in a LTR (or even if you used some sort of easily translatable male code) then it's her bad no matter what animal stew you brought to the table.
She eventually let me know that I could quit telling her I wasn't ready for a full blown R, that she got it and that the repetition was annoying. I should also explain that she never blamed me or said anything was unfair. She was incredibly cool and was almost The Perfect Woman. If she'd thrown a fit at the end I'd have written her off as crazy and that would have been the end of the cleanup. Instead she just said, "I practically love you, you big goof," and explained how we weren't going to be able to be friends.
That said, your point that women are responsible for their own emotions is correct. That's the area wherein lay the SLBs that I mentioned earlier I need to handle. Eventually.
For instance, don't wave goodbye all misty eyed at the door or ask her to call to tell you she got home safe if you aren't in relationship mode. That kind of stuff confuses us if we have our own oxytocin buzz to deal with - lol. Keep it more jolly like smack her on the *ss as she leaves and say "Stay cute." or something like that but less lame.
As Corri rather alluded to, the first action appeals to women who want a relationship. The second appeals to women who don't want a relationship (i.e. is counterproductive to their continued not wanting of a relationship).
I call it my Rogue Creation plan.
Heh. That's shooting fish in a barrel. If you need any help with steps 2 and 3, I can put you in touch with an expert.
Doing that probably would improve the world but make sure you give the guy a copy of NMMNG as a delightful parting gift. Otherwise, you're leaving the guy with half a wolf. You could think of him as a Nice Guy with a pet wolf. A pet wolf is good to have but he's still a Nice Guy, and being a Nice Guy with half a wolf sucks. A dude needs a whole wolf who knows how to enlist the St. Bernard to keep the puppy's nose far away from any grownup monkey business.
(Corri) ...it's just your general lack of regard for the female gender that seeps through most of your posts that makes me shake my head.
Most guys, and all Nice Guys, respect women waaay too much. If blackfoot was posting on a fast seduction forum I suspect his tone would be much different.
There's also something about "doing what works"....hmmm. My thoughts on this haven't coalesced but I lived a couple of examples of "doing what works" in December and it put me in a bit of a funk over the holidays. Part of me liked it when women were wonderfully mysterious and I just needed to wait until one saw what a great guy I am and blessed me with her company. Finding out a guy can do what works is rather like finding out there's no Santa Claus. Living in reality beats living in fantasy but it's more fun to think of your presents being delivered by an enormous elf in a red suit with flying reindeer than it is to realize your parents bought that stuff at Best Buy.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
There's also something about "doing what works"....hmmm. My thoughts on this haven't coalesced but I lived a couple of examples of "doing what works" in December and it put me in a bit of a funk over the holidays. Part of me liked it when women were wonderfully mysterious and I just needed to wait until one saw what a great guy I am and blessed me with her company. Finding out a guy can do what works is rather like finding out there's no Santa Claus. Living in reality beats living in fantasy but it's more fun to think of your presents being delivered by an enormous elf in a red suit with flying reindeer than it is to realize your parents bought that stuff at Best Buy.
Wow - there's a comparison. So true. I often feel for all you disappointed guys - Burg, Stig, Bf.... Women are difficult, women often say one thing and do another, many overly romanticize men, relationships, marriage, many expect too much or worse, not enough but.............................. lots of us are also our significant others' partner in the foxhole of life, loyal, giving, protective of family and best of all, hot numbers too. We have the whole zoo of animals in the arsenal and given half a chance can be better than your best fantasy of receiving that bike from some fat guy in a red suit. Hang in there guys. Now that you know better you'll do better.
