you see, here's the thing too, nwlywed, i am one of those people (sometimes i think we are rare) who, even though i have imperfections, i am not ashamed of my body. i'm not. that's not to say that i am a stripper (never been) or that i wear inappropriately small garments (sexy but not trashy). and i am only nude in front of H. so, now i started wearing a robe all the time and shutting the door when i shower. that way he won't see me. like maybe he sees me too much. (once he made a comment that he had never seen anyone naked so much in his whole life.) he has picked up on the fact that the door is closed and i put on my robe really quickly. he even asked my why i am covering up. i just said i didn't want to be naked in front of him. it doesn't make a difference if he sees me naked. i just have a body. just like everybody else. like a statue of a naked woman is beautiful but you don't want to ML with it. so if my body has no effect, then why show it?
also, i asked him if he just wants me to give up. he asked give up what? i said trying to have a passionate M, trying to make it a loving and lasting and happy R. he said that he didn't but he also said that he didn't want to talk about it. i have asked how long do you think that this family (who his S calls 'the happy family' bc we laugh a lot, but more and more it is the kids and i who are laughing) with you pushing me away like this? how long do you think i can keep reaching for you when you don't reach back? he has no real comeback other than to say that he doesn't know and he's not pushing me away.
this am (icing for the cake) he tells me that he loves me. i tell him that i love him too. he said (God, i hate this) yeah, but you don't want to be married to me. (which is not true. if i didn't want to, i would have left a long time ago. being a woman i know this was fishing for a compliment.) i said that's not true and you know it. he said now you're going to have to prove it to me. i said, don't turn this into a game. i hate mind games, they are always cruel and no one wins, ever. he said that wasn't a game. so i said if he is going to play that game then how about you prove to me you love me? he asks how? (really, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.) he says, i tell you all the time. i said, yeah but you don't show me. he asks how to do that. i said ML to me. show me you love me. of course, it didn't happen. i didn't expect it to anyway. so i said, i can't prove it to you. you have to choose to believe me. i haven't proven it so far, how can i now? i was by his side supporting him and his son while he didn't have a job, i fed him, if that doesn't prove it, then what the heck will?????
truth is, i am tired of it. but not tired enough to leave. i don't want to break our family apart. i believe that every M can work. i believe that ours can too. it may not look like i had dreamed or hoped or desired. but i think that can be overcome. i just felt alone and rejected over and over. the rejection is what is killing me. i always thought that, like my parents, love would conquer all. i also thought that H would care about me and my feelings like i care about his. now, instead of romantic love feeling like the strongest thing on earth, it seems like love for your children is stronger. maybe it always has been and i was/am a silly little girl who wanted to live a fairy tale.
ME 36/ H 43 D 12/ stepS 9 T 2 / M 1
Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream of things that never were and say why not? --Robert Kennedy
you see, here's the thing too, nwlywed, i am one of those people (sometimes i think we are rare) who, even though i have imperfections, i am not ashamed of my body. i'm not. that's not to say that i am a stripper (never been) or that i wear inappropriately small garments (sexy but not trashy). and i am only nude in front of H. so, now i started wearing a robe all the time and shutting the door when i shower. that way he won't see me. like maybe he sees me too much. (once he made a comment that he had never seen anyone naked so much in his whole life.) he has picked up on the fact that the door is closed and i put on my robe really quickly. he even asked my why i am covering up. i just said i didn't want to be naked in front of him. it doesn't make a difference if he sees me naked. i just have a body. just like everybody else. like a statue of a naked woman is beautiful but you don't want to ML with it. so if my body has no effect, then why show it?
I cant even wrap my head around that.. Id love to see my W naked as much as possible. But shes done the same thing and I cant figure out why. I'll send her an e-mail and try and be flirty and tell her how hot and sexy she looked this morning in her thong and bra.. But then the next day shes all wrapped up in a bathrobe and gets dressed in the closet.
Originally Posted By: thotitwudbdifrnt
this am (icing for the cake) he tells me that he loves me. i tell him that i love him too. he said (God, i hate this) yeah, but you don't want to be married to me. (which is not true. if i didn't want to, i would have left a long time ago. being a woman i know this was fishing for a compliment.)
I dont think it was fishing for a compliment. I think he was trying to get the truth out of you. Or setting you up.
Originally Posted By: thotitwudbdifrnt
i said that's not true and you know it. he said now you're going to have to prove it to me. i said, don't turn this into a game. i hate mind games, they are always cruel and no one wins, ever. he said that wasn't a game. so i said if he is going to play that game then how about you prove to me you love me? he asks how? (really, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.) he says, i tell you all the time. i said, yeah but you don't show me. he asks how to do that. i said ML to me. show me you love me. of course, it didn't happen. i didn't expect it to anyway. so i said, i can't prove it to you. you have to choose to believe me. i haven't proven it so far, how can i now? i was by his side supporting him and his son while he didn't have a job, i fed him, if that doesn't prove it, then what the heck will?????
truth is, i am tired of it. but not tired enough to leave. i don't want to break our family apart. i believe that every M can work. i believe that ours can too. it may not look like i had dreamed or hoped or desired. but i think that can be overcome. i just felt alone and rejected over and over. the rejection is what is killing me.
Yea rejection sucks. Especially from someone that is supposed to love you. It killed my self esteem for a while and made me depressed.. but I finally pulled myself out of it. You have to do things for YOU. Make yourself happy first. If he wants to come along for the ride thats ok. but theres no sense in both of you being unhappy. Make yourself happy first. Youre responsible for your own happiness. My eureka moment was when I thought about my life before my W. I dated frequently, i had a lot of female friends, I had LOTS of sex, I enjoyed working out and I had a positive attitude. I was sad sometimes because I felt like I didnt have a W to share things in. That I didnt truly have a close relationship with someone, that I didnt feel loved. BUT being in this relationhip hasnt made me feel loved either, at least not in the past 8-9 months. I will be ok without her if thats my path. I was ok before and I will survive and be ok again.
Originally Posted By: thotitwudbdifrnt
i always thought that, like my parents, love would conquer all. i also thought that H would care about me and my feelings like i care about his. now, instead of romantic love feeling like the strongest thing on earth, it seems like love for your children is stronger. maybe it always has been and i was/am a silly little girl who wanted to live a fairy tale.
I think we all want the fairy tale. The W and I used to look at each other with stars in our eyes and talk that very thing. How we were going to be the Happily Ever After couple and how perfect our love was. Truth is, people change, resentments, anger and sarcasm poisoned our realtionship. I dont know about you - but I feel like she and I had such a build up in the beginning of how great it was going to be that once reality set in it all came crashing down.
you know, i tried the flirty/ dirty emails, texts,etc. all that happened was he said i made him nervous and upset. he hated that i flirted with him. i am naturally flirtatious. i love to flirt.
H hides from me when he is naked too. he said it is bc i look at him as a piece of meat and that he thinks he looks horrible. i don't think so at all, but i can't convince him otherwise.
and he says he doesn't have to prove to me that i am beautiful and hot bc random men say that to me all the time. which is true, it happens regularly. but i don't care if every man in the whole world thinks i am hot. i only want H.
i am utterly convinced that sarcasm kills all. i used to be very sarcastic until i really heard how it sounds. now, i realize more than ever how sarcastic remarks about how love is not important, ML is not important, nothing matters. it kills my insides. all that sarcasm makes me cynical. i hate cynicism.
i hope that the Dbomb doesn't happen to you. it is so hard to live through, even when you want it. and then after that, there are all those emotions you didn't expect to have to deal with. mine was so bad. but you can make it, you did before. i know that for myself too.
incidentally, after all the talking, tonight H hugged me and kissed me with more passion than i have felt from him in months. changing? not holding my breath. maybe a move in the right direction though.
good on you!
ME 36/ H 43 D 12/ stepS 9 T 2 / M 1
Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream of things that never were and say why not? --Robert Kennedy
Yea I tried doing the flirty e-mail too. One day she said that if I would just mention early in the day that id liek to have sex that night, she would look forwrd to it all day and there would be a build up. HA.. I sent her a flirty e-mail (nothing overtly sexual, somthing to the effect of -grrr you looked hot this morning getting dressed I cant wait to come home and get you undressed!!) When I came home she flipped out on me for sending that stuff to work. I think some people are just wired differently for flirting. Maybe try some logic on him. Tell him.. look you may think you look horrible, but I dont, I think youre HOT and i want you. He 'should' tell you youre beautiful, its his opinion that matters most. Random men saying youre pretty doenst do much for you if the only one who's opinion counts doesnt make you feel pretty. Its good that he hugged and kissed you. I wouldnt hold my breath either. Ive heard the "I'll work on us" "I'll be better to you" "I'll make more effort" speech 100 times, the proof is in the pudding...
well, i tried something different, don't know why it worked.
so, last night i just got ready for bed like normal. i didn't put anything overtly sexual but sexy anyway. and i just laid there watching tv with H and expecting nothing. but i did have my best asset facing him. still, not expecting or really hoping either. as i read my book later, he began to touch me, not in a 'let's hurry up and get this over with' way. i said it felt good but still didn't expect it to turn into anything. i would have been fine, really. but then it did happen and it was great. i wasn't planning on it, he wasn't planning on it. and at the end, even he was like OMG.
still seeking a counselor though. still asking him to see a dr and/or counselor too. not holding my breath for a long time. i've heard all that 'i'll try to be better/i'll work on us' stuff too. so, i am waiting to see how that pudding is.
he does listen when i talk, i have to give him credit for that. and every time that i have said that i was hurt by what he did or said, he quit doing that thing or quit saying that thing. he did that with all the things i mentioned at the beginning of this thread. he dropped it totally and apologized. the things were VERY hurtful and mean and he still left it up to me to get over it (which is mean too). he just doesn't listen so well when i say i want something. except every once in a while.
That is really nice but one encounter is like so much monopoly money - ain't worth much in practice. Give him sincere praise but MOVE ON - there is much more to fix here. One roll in the hay isn't all that is necessary. I hope this is the mark of better things to come though.
i realize that last night in no way makes up for what has transpired in our R. but i do believe we have a chance. in order for it to work, we both have to try. one thing is for sure: if i give up now, we have no chance at all. i have always believed he loves me. doesn't mean it will work. but i am an eternal optimist with a few pessimistic moments thrown in.
i originally came to this website very angry and disappointed and wanting to stop myself from thinking of giving up. i thought this forum would encourage me. it gave me a chance to say what was/is on my mind without the fear of telling a friend who might look at H or me differently. so for that, i am thankful to all of you for reading and for your input.
this is my 2nd M and i don't like to fail. i have lived a long time and i have experienced lots of bad things (some horrific that landed people in court and jail), i still hold on to the idea that you don't give up in life. those things were much worse than what i go through now. yes, i feel rejected and pushed away. i feel like i am on an emotional roller coaster. but rejection, though painful, is definitely not as bad as some other things i have endured. do i hate it? you bet! does it make me angry? you better believe it does! do i want to throw plates and scream sometimes? of course!
but i thought this forum would be a bit more encouraging to the idea of saving all marriages. that was what i got out of Michele's book. that every marriage can be saved. crappy things happen. mean things are said and done. i have done it too.
if i leave H and find H#3, i will just have a NEW set of problems, not the absence of problems. H#1 and i had no problems in the bedroom but he put me down all the time and told me i wasn't attractive... until we were in the last part of our M and were with a counselor. now, that wasn't the only thing wrong in our lives. lots more was there. the big 'but' is that now i have a different set of problems with this H but things haven't gone so far that i was ever packing my bags.
and i am not saying all of this bc of last night. if you go back on this thread, i said i didn't want to leave. i said that i love him and that he loves me. i also today said that he does mean things. so did XH. the difference between the two of them is that 1. he has not cheated on me, 2. he has not hit me, 3. he does think i am attractive (doesn't show it enough for my taste but at least he doesn't say i am unattractive), 4. he doesn't hold things i did 10 years ago over my head, 5. he doesn't treat me like i am an idiot (even though i had more education than XH), 6. we share the same core beliefs, etc etc. i have already pointed out lots of faults so i won't repeat them again.
you have to teach people how to treat you. i think we are still in the process of teaching each other. maybe we got married too quickly. maybe we should have waited for a more stable time in both our lives. i can maybe myself to death. bottom line is that i am married and, as i have always said, i want to stay that way. which is why i came to this website in the first place. i didn't think that we were doomed. i just wanted to know that my feelings were not uncommon or irrational. and i found that apparently i am pretty normal. i don't have to put up with $@#% from him. he knows that i can leave if i want to badly enough. he also is starting to believe that i will stay. i think one of our issues from the start was that he thought i would leave soon, anyway.
last night was great, but as you noticed i still said in that post that i am seeking a counselor and encouraging H to go to the dr as well. i am trying to be balanced here. i can't roll around in the dumps too long bc i don't like it there.
maybe you didn't mean what you said the way it came across to me. i hope not for the sake of mr karen and your R. bc to me it sounded like i should just throw in the towel. i admit there is work to be done. i openly admit that. and i get shocked at when i think of what has happened so far. Dbombs are so painful, so if i can help it at all, i am going to stay. i came here to talk and help my marriage, not destroy it.
