Thanks, HB and Lin. Great for you to get ILY. I have not said that for a while and H has stopped saying it, probably because I don't say it. I hate to hear it from him anyway because there is the other half unsaid, "IL her also".
OTOH, H has really been on the ball with the kids and family in general. No signs of phone call/text from OW. Which is a surprise fro me. I would think OW would be calling at all odd hours. H even have the phone off the whole New Year Eve so I know there is no "Happy New Year from OW" type call. His email was down so he could not check email and that bothered him. That may be because of OW or just his general semi-addiction to checking email a few times a day. I actually hoped OW will go crazy but unfortunately she is not that type who pushes. I so want her to push and go crazy so H can see what kind of woman she is. But she is not, so she will always be the perfect women in H's eyes. But then if she does not push, I think H will just let her go, eventually. H always go to her when she has "crisis".
We had a good New Year Eve. Went out to town with the kids to walk around. But then it got too cold and we were too tired so we went home before midnight and watched fireworks on TV!!!
Sounds like you're returning to normal family life - which is just great! About your dream, Lin and HB are right that you should not read too much in to it - but I'm fascinated by them too. Maybe it means not only did you get your M back (finding original ring), but that H is recommitting himself to you (new ring), but is still in the process of fully giving himself to you (no engraving). Of course, this is just my own BS interpretation.
I just consulted my official 'Chart of Dreams' - rings symbolize reconciliation!
HB, what you wrote about your H thanking you for not giving up gives me hope. But then again, my H has been gone almost a year and a half now. He's also major MLC. Sigh.
You have come such a long way and worked so hard. I too, know how hard it is to "keep the home fires burning" and get a major move organized. Congrats on keeping it together throughout it all!
You and your family have been through so many changes lately. You are still working so hard to come to terms with your boundries and needs. From outside the situation, reading your words, it sure looks like H has really been "on the ball" and things are moving forward for you both.
I'm not sure how to say this. I guess I've always leaned toward believing in positive thinking. Or that you receive what you visualize. I think my wish for you is that you could take just a little while to just refuse to let the xOw take one more ounce of joy away from you by spending a moment letting the POTENTIAL of her returning ruin the reality you have.
I'm not saying you don't need answers. But I think he just may realize the sacrifices you have made. I think he may also know that you "hate" to hear him say he loves you because you don't hear that, you hear the "other half unsaid"....
Funny that I mentioned the other half of ILY unsaid.
The other night we argued again. Started off with minor household things. Eventually it got to R again. We have not had a R talk for almost two months because if I didn't ask, he wouldn't tell. Anyway, R talk started. When I asked if there has been any contact, he said he has not contacted her for a few weeks, being very vague, and slow, which indicated lying. I pushed, and he got even more vague. I think she called/emailed and he responded. I said I mean it by no contact. He is hurting me everyday that he continues contact. We argued over thsi for a while. At teh end, what I got is that he will always respond if she contacts him. He has done too much damage to her to stop that. and he is the type who always respond regardless of whom. (which he is).
I got very sad, I told him again that this is still a 3 person R and I don't know how long I can live like this. It got bad and he got really mad. He accused me of telling his friends that I hate the move (which I do, who won't hate moving after re-uniting with family/friends after half a year and got yanked to a place with no one I know). He said I should "act" in front of other people. I told him I cannot. I am not a good liar like him. More accusing from him, like I asked him about his secretary and he said it's because I am suspucious. I told him no. I am just chit-chatting. Come ot think of it, he is reflecting his own guilt of contact with OW and other history with OW and he is taking that out on me, accusing me of everything. He said the A is over and final and he is here, with me. Basically saying I cannot ask for no contact because he already did what he can do. I will have to deal with my own emotions. To me, this really hurts because he is not willing to be open and spend some effort to ease my pain, while he is spending effort to ease Ow's pain.
I mean it when I told him I don't know if I can last much longer. He did say something good in that now that I have moved, I need to make the best out of it. Which is true. I just have this fear that with this contact on, eventually I will move on.
Then the next day, I am acting cold. What more can I say if anything I ask is critized at some point and he is not ready to deal with my pain. But he was acting very nice to me. I was distant as I cannot deal with him now. Then at night, he hugged me and said "ILY". I said, "You don't have ot tell me that because I know there is the other half unsaid." (which is the I love her also). He immediately said, "No, that's not true". I have no way to tell if he really means it or just lying to me again. But it was nice to see that he is making yet another effort to make me feel good.
Basically, these past few months, I think we are still stuck in teh same situation. He won't stop contact (no matter how little there is, but OW is willing to take crumbs from him and he is letting her). I am flip-flopping between waiting it out and slowly moving away from loving him. I talked to a friend and she said I really need to wait it out becuase this is MLC. I tend to agree. But I think I will have to kick start GAL and getting my life in order with a new life here in a foreign land.
My question to you and myself is, how should I behave now? He wants me to not ask any questions about anything (work, family, OW or not). He does tell me stuff. How do I react if I can only listen and not allowed to ask (i.e. one way converstaion). On the other hand, I am supposed to tell him stuff about my life without him asking. And I don't like this one way convo from me either. I want the Q&A session type conversation. "How are you?" "I went to the post office today and saw an old man". "So what's so special about that?" type convo. Should I do it his way? It is difficult for me because I never know which questions are off limit ot ask. I will have to stop asking him about anything which may seem very cold.
I know this is not easy to understand. I just feel like I don't know how to behave around him anymore as nothing is good for him unless I pretend OW is not there and pretend everything is OK, and hide my feelings even when I am sad (because he does nto want to see it). To me, that's not a real relationship. That's acting. And I don't want to live like that.
I really feel for you and are stumped as to what solutions to offer. I totally get the pain you feel - I too am not good at acting - I wear my heart on my sleeve. It's a fine line to be true to yourself without pushing him further away. He needs to be able to see the situation/his actions from your point of view and he is still not there 100% to be able to do this.
After 16 mos I can honestly say my H has finally opened his eyes up to what his EX OW is really like. But she went off the deep end - guilted him to no end that she left her H for him and now he will not be there for her blah, blah, blah... She tried blackmailing him into staying with her - nice start of a R hey???!!!
The point is he went back to her BS THREE times after he told me he was done...she continues to try and suck him back in and until the WAS are clear in there head they will continue to be sucked back in. You are right to have your fears b/c your H's OW sounds just as treacherous (sp) - but until your H makes up his mind that is how it will be - he can only stop it. It is out of your control - you can only take care of you. Somehow he needs to put himself in your shoes....
Take it slow and watch for the small positives - they are there. Reflect on where you were a year ago and go from there!
I am thinking of you!!
HB
Me41 H44 * M16 yrs * D13 S10 8/06 H wants a D * 1/07 OW Truth 2/07 Searated * 7/07 H moved home First Thread Surviving Separation Now Piecing
I think you are absolutely right that you need to kick start the GAL in your new home.
I just moved across country for my H's job also. I think that almost makes us depend upon them a little too much because we don't have our own friends yet or an established pattern. I have wayyyy too much time on my hands.
I still jump when his phone rings, wondering if she's trying to contact. Time is the only thing that'll ease all of this for us, hon, and there just isn't any way to speed this process up. It is truly out of our control as HB (way to go Michigan girl!) pointed out.
Because of all the added stress... your move, holidays, etc., I was just hoping you could "drop the rope" for a bit and take care of you. Not forever. Just until you get yourself back in a better place.
I know this isn't fair. No one will blame you if you feel it's time to move on. But if you start back from the beginning (GAL & PMA)and make yourself happy you'll be in a better position to battle and have a clearer idea what you need from your new relationship with your H.
Detach from him and whatever he is doing. You can't control it anyhow. Ever. Trusting is a decision, just like forgiveness, that you have to make every day (near as I can tell), when you are ready. Until then, throw yourself into your own life and make a great one in your new area. Research the town? Come up with points of interest to talk with him about? Make a game of coming up with conversations that has nothing to do with OW and wait to see how long it is before he wonders why you NEVER bring it up again? I dunno sweetie, I just think you're chasing your tail and driving him away and if that's NOT what you want to do then I'm sorry, but you're going to have to change something about the dance the two of you are doing.
I wish you lived by me so we could get together and take this town on and come up with amazing things to blow our husband's minds with our amazingness. ;-)
Deauxlie, thanks for posting. I have been busy, moving. You are so right about me chasing him away. I think that's is true. I do know that if I never ask, he will never talks. That's my H. He will never reveal his feelings to anyone.
Updaing. We just moved into our real rental housing. (we were on company housing before). Lots of unpacking. I feel my life is filled with packing, unpacking, organizing, cooking, cleaning. not fun. It is getting to me. Needs a break. Does not help that I have no friends here, being so far away. It makes life very boring that I feel like I am depending on H for outside information, stimulus.
On the A front, I don't know what is going on. H is still being very nice to me. That is, as long as I don't talk about A, pretend that OW does not exist. As long as I don't ask him about email/voicemail/sms/phone, "live as if" we are one happy family, that we are LIKE one happy family. H probably thinks that life is good, too. What he does not know or does not acknowledge is that he is still hurting me everyday by keeping contact with OW, regardless of how little or how impersonal it is. I don't even know what kind of relationship they are having as I don't snoop. And I have not been asking. I think I have told him enough times that he is hurting me if he still keeps contact with her. If he chooses to continue that, well, eventually I will give up. At this time, though, I am trying to be patient and hope OW fades out. I need to get a life here first.
I guess OW is still important enough to him that he cannot let her go. If she is not important or he does not care for her anymore, it would be no problem just to stop contacting her (even if it is just purely doing it for me). For example if I ask him not to read "GQ" magazine, even if it is a very unreasonable request, he would because "GQ" does not mean that much to him. But if I ask him not to read his favorite magazine, because it is very important to him, he won't. I guess that's how I feel. She is still important enough to him that he won't stop contact just for me, because he thinks I am being unreasonable (not acknowledging how much this hurts me), and because he still feels for her. I guess I will give myself sometime. At some point, though, if she still remains important, may be she is more important than our family and that's the time to leave.
your situation sounds very awkward right now, and probably still very painful.
could i offer one simple thought? if two people truly want to "piece things back together" and enter the repair phase of a marriage, they both have to be acting in good faith. if only one of you is, it isn't likely to work. i don't think your husband is there yet based on:
1) his continuing contact with the other woman.
2) his statement that "you have to work this out for yourself", which at he very least shows he is not yet ready to accept responsibility for how his actions affect you.
3) his self-pitying reference to being punished, also reflecting non-acceptance of responsibility.
as you know from divorce-busting, it is probably not helpful to demand he cut off contact with the other woman. it's a totally different thing, though, to talk about what you will do. don't you have every right to say that until he is really ready to commit to you and take responsibility for what's happened, you have no choice but to emotionally protect yourself? and don't you have every right not to "pursue" him until you sense he is truly ready? and if you say these things with the right tone, he is most likely to see they are simply sensible things any self-respecting person would do.
while i don't know exactly what those boundaries look like for you, i think your self-respect and his respect for you will be higher if you follow them. and certainly, you can't hurt yourself during this time by working indpendently on things that make you a better person and feel better about yourself. i believe if you do these things, and don't pursue someone who clearly isn't ready, you will only become more appealing to both yourself and others.
how do you know when he's ready? turn those things above upside down - which means he realizes he can't see the other woman and expect to truly repair his marriage, and that he takes responsibility for his decisions and actions. i hope for your sake, he does.
Thanks, aimhigh. H is not seeing OW anymore. We moved far far away and H switched jobs so that he does not have to go to where OW lives. I don't know how often/intense is the phone/email/txt/website contact is. That is the thing I am frustrated about. I feel that he is not able to open up to me with everything. And I do believe in piecing he will have to, especially in this regard. He tells me everything else about his life, just omitting OW part. I do think he has every intention to stay in this M, however, I also believe he has no intention of ever truly cutting off ALL contact with OW. He knows it hurts me, yet I don't think he understand how much hurt there is. And I believe that he cannot just "not respond" to OW because of all the pain he caused her, so he is hiding it from me, believing that it will hurt me less.
So H called while I was having one of the few crying moments. He asked if I am feeling OK. I said "I am not but you don't want to know" (He has said that I need to work on my feelings myself. Which is his belief even for himself. He does not like others to help him) Looks like he didnt' know what to do. Later he called and suggested that the whole family go out to eat tonight if I dont' want to cook. (For the record, after moving to this new town, without any help and friends, I have been home cooking/cleaning everyday and it is really stressing me out to see mountains of boxes unpacked and stuff everywhere) So this is his way to comfort me. On one hand, I feel good that he is trying to support me when I am feeling down. On the other hand, I feel that he is such a coward and won't owe up to talking to me about what is bothering me. So it is this conflicting feeling that is keeping me in this M.
I do think, like most others have said, time will heal all things. May be in time, OW will fade off. In time, may be I will forgive. What I don't know is, if he will ever be open with me with his feelings.
"H, I am no longer willing to stay in a three-person R. I do not find the way you have chosen to handle things acceptable. Please either move out or call OW with me on the phone and end things clearly, crisply, and permanently. You will need to block her number on your cell phone and end any email addresses that she may have. Any future contact after this will be a deal breaker."
