Separated, but maybe not for long

[wordweaver]

Dom R, exactly what I have been thinking. But friends and relatives say I need to stick by my daughter. They say either get rid of the husband or put the marriage on hold for two years until she is 18. The thing is both my other kids left at 14 to go live with their father so they could go to another school. So it is difficult to think of letting her go, but I did it with the other two, I let them make their choice.

[Dom R]

They say either get rid of the husband or put the marriage on hold for two years until she is 18.

that is the worst possible advice imaginable. These people do not know what they are talking about; quit talking to them about your marriage!!!!

You cant "put a marriage on hold". That's kind of like deciding to not take care of your dog for 2 years. either it will die, or run away.

Is your job as a parent, to be your daughter's best friend, or to be a parent? Seems like one of the most important jobs you can do as a parent, is teach your children, what commitment to marriage looks like.

If you stick with your husband and work things out with him... you may lose your daughter as a "friend"... but how do you think you'd be doing on the "parent" scale?

[wordweaver]

I got home from work today and found a note and my husband's wedding ring on my pillow. I had given him some papers I had printed from this site so he could read them. The note was on those papers saying that I needed the papers more than he did and that I wasn't trying but he was. He's upset because I didn't go stay at his parent's house on New Year's Eve and I told him that my daughter would be working this weekend during the day on Saturday and Sunday if he wanted to come out to see me one of those days. He is claiming that he loves me, but I don't love him.

I'm thinking that either he ran out of pot and was in a bad mood so he lashed out at me (his personality changes when he runs out of pot) or he's meeting up with some woman for wild sex since he thinks that pot, music and wild sex are the important things in life.

I hate to say it, but I can't work on a relationship based on this. As near as I can tell, since we have separated he has not made any attempt to get a job. I think he is jealous because my daughter just got a job. He has been in competition with her since he moved in her. Kind of silly for a 48 year old to compete with a 16 year old.

[Dom R]

I got home from work today and found a note and my husband's wedding ring on my pillow. I had given him some papers I had printed from this site so he could read them. The note was on those papers saying that I needed the papers more than he did and that I wasn't trying but he was.

....

I'm thinking that either he ran out of pot and was in a bad mood so he lashed out at me (his personality changes when he runs out of pot) or he's meeting up with some woman for wild sex since he thinks that pot, music and wild sex are the important things in life.

ww;

you yourself wrote, at the top of your thread,

I wasn't putting anything into the marriage.

So why are you trying to now reject what he has written to you?

As near as I can tell, since we have separated he has not made any attempt to get a job.

that may or may not be true. However, it doesnt change the truth factor of what he wrote to YOU.

A marriage is supposed to be an effort by both people. you want him to make an effort on what you think is important.
how much of an effort are you making, on what he thinks is important?

[wordweaver]

Before we separated I wasn't making as much of an effort as I should have. He gave me less than ten days to change and when I didn't do what he wanted he changed his mind. During that nine days, I worked 6 of the days, we had two major storms that I had to shovel snow during, one day was devoted to travel to get my daughter. We saw each other two of the days and had sex both times. I was reading the material, he doesn't want to look at it.

To him, meeting him for sex is important. Getting a job and working is not important. If I don't go to his parents house to have sex, I'm not making an effort. If I refuse to leave my dog alone over night I am not making an effort. If I refuse to leave my daughter home alone over night, I am not making an effort. We talked on the phone every night and there was no hint of a change of heart on his part, nothing until the note.

Before I asked him to leave, he was getting up in the AM, turning the computer on, lighting up. I got ready for work while he played on the Internet. When I got home from work he was still on the INternet and still smoking pot. I could walk in the room and say something ridiculous to him and he wouldn't acknowledge that I said anything. He refused to give my daughter a ride to meet me at work for her counseling appointment in addition to the hour and a half for the appointment. So I spent an extra hour away from work traveling to get her. Each hour away from work is an hour less of vacation time to spend with him.

So because I invited him to my house while my daughter was at work, I'm not making an effort. Those are his words.

[Anned]

Hey WordWeaver (love the name!) -

I'm no expert here, but I have a couple other perspectives:
One is: have you considered family counseling? I would think that as long as your daughter is so unhappy, you will have a hard time working on anything with your husband. While I agree that a marriage is between the husband and wife and the children are children, I also think that a family in crisis needs work together. Your daughter might be completely in the wrong for her attitude, but can you decide that while wondering what you did wrong, what your husband's issues might be, and all else? You are doing a huge job attempting to blend your family; IMHO, an outside expert who can help facilitate discussion might be a great asset.

Other idea: I am struck by your comments of your husband's use of pot and potential porn interest. A site that has some wonderful information and help for dealing with relationships affected by addictions is Soberrecovery. You might find some guidance that helps connect with the things you are finding in DB; I know that the community on the forums there are as supportive and helpful as this great group of people here.

Anyway, some ideas to consider. I will hold you and your situation in my thoughts and prayers.

<<<<hugs>>>>
Anned

[Dom R]

To him, meeting him for sex is important. Getting a job and working is not important. If I don't go to his parents house to have sex, I'm not making an effort. If I refuse to leave my dog alone over night I am not making an effort. If I refuse to leave my daughter home alone over night, I am not making an effort. We talked on the phone every night and there was no hint of a change of heart on his part, nothing until the note.

WW,

Lets say that you have told him flat out, "I want you to get a job and quit smoking pot".

SO, over the next few weeks...
- he spends hours reading relationship books
- he redecorates the house
- he cooks you breakfast, lunch and dinner, from scratch

In other words, he spends hours a day fussing over you.
He's spending a whole lot of time, and "effort".

But would he be putting any effort into the things that matter to you? getting off drugs, and getting a job?

On the things that matter to you, what is the total amount of effort he has spent in that hypothetical situation?
Zero.


How much effort have you put in, on the things that matter to him? From what you wrote, it sounds like very little. To the point that he counts it as "not making an effort".

and, from his perspective.... he's right.

your post about what you have been doing, is a compilation of ways in which you have not been doing the things he's been asking of you.
You've been leaving out the specifics of what he's asking you, and only dwelling on "I cant do these impossible things!"

I've colorized some theoretical "missing" parts of your post, to maybe highlight what I mean.

he asks you to have sex with him
you dont do it, because you wont go to his parents house.
he asks you to (?)
you dont do it, because you dont want to leave your dog overnight
he asks you to (?)
you wont do it, because you dont want to leave your daughter alone.
etc, etc.

There are ways in which you can do what he's asking you, and yet not leave your dog/daughter/... in negative circumstances.
However, you dont seem to be looking at them. You seem to be standing firm on excuses not to do what he asks of you, rather than putting in more effort to find solutions.


You came here, to work on your marriage, right?

Trying to blame everything on him, isnt helpful to your marriage. The only thing that approach does, is attempt to trick people here into saying, "oh, my, you've been trying so hard, WW, he's so terrible".

Well, he certainly has faults, that is clear.
Sounds like there are a few things you could work on for yourself, too, though?

[Anned]

Dom -

Your words, while insightful, are awfully harsh. Considering that WordWeaver is dealing with at least a couple people who are trying to manipulate her, I wonder if it helps to emphasize flaws. I think you are right that no situation is "only" the spouse's issue, and yes, we all need to find what we are effectively blocking with excuses or blindspots, but...

WW, please take from all of us what you need. If Dom's words ring true, great! Go with that. Know, though, that if you are still at the beginning of a separation, there's more than enough time to find, carry and deal the blame.

Sorry, Dom, if I sound critical; I'm just really responding to what seems an intensely worded post. Forgive me if I misread your post...

Anned

[wordweaver]

Anned, Thank you. I have been unsure how to respond to Dom. You see my husband thinks that are marriage is going to be better overnight. The only thing he has asked me to do is accept him as he is. That means I accept him as a pot smoking, porn viewing, cheater who doesn't work. So in his eyes, I am supposed to be ok with that and love him. He has never asked me to do anything else. I lived with the pot smoking. I lived with him not working. I lived with him looking at the computer every day. What drew the line was watching porn in the kitchen while my daughter is home, going to cheaters websites to actively look for a wife who wants to cheat and setting up a meeting to have sex. I do not know how often he has met women for sex. He was going to have her show up at his radio show and have sex while he was on the air.So he was risking his radio license and his marriage for a few moments of thrill. We were still having sex, once or twice per week. When I asked him to leave, he admitted to having a sex addiction and that he needs help. Some of the porn sites he was looking at were of teens (my daughter is 16)which is illegal just as having marijuana is illegal. Both things made me and my daughter very uncomfortable.


Anned, my daughter is in counseling. I wanted to do marriage counseling and my husband was thinking about it. He thought about it for a couple of days and then said he doesn't have faith in counselors. He doesn't want to read the information that I give him. My daughter and I have never had an issue getting along (accept when she was little and I made her go to school or clean her room!).

Thanks for the website. I will check it out. I grew up with an alcoholic father and understand that my husband will not change until he wants to change and change for himself. He will not change, give up pot, to keep his marriage, he will only give it up when he realizes that he is harming himself and all of his relationships.

[Anned]

<<<WW>>>

I think you are being very honest with yourself here. I have used the Soberrecovery site to help me understand first my husband's ACoA characteristics and then to tackle my own caretaking/codependent habits. I know that our marriage was in trouble when my husband walked out, but in our case, it is these issues that must be tackled before any hope of reconciliation - if that is to even come - can be had. I found that both that site's forums and this one here at DB has given me the broad support I need to change me and to stand/wait for my marriage.

Some of the porn sites he was looking at were of teens (my daughter is 16)which is illegal just as having marijuana is illegal.

IMHO, this sounds like potential sexual addiction, and this specific activity sounds really troubling to me. Have you considered that part of your daughter's uneasiness with your H is that he finds teens sexually thrilling? Might there be more here? If your husband has such a need for porn or sexual thrills that he's willing to risk job and marriage, that seems to be an important and huge issue.

I wanted to do marriage counseling and my husband was thinking about it. He thought about it for a couple of days and then said he doesn't have faith in counselors. He doesn't want to read the information that I give him.

If you read some of the different posts here at DB, you will find how sometimes marriage counselling can be more damaging than helpful, especially if one of the partners isn't invested in it. Maybe you and your husband will get there, but it doesn't sound right now like he's in a good place for that kind of work. Do you have someone you can look to for support and guidance?

I believe that you and your daughter have a good relationship, but what you described - both she and your husband giving ultimatums about how and when they will be in the same house/family - suggested that you are being put in a place of manipulation.

I grew up with an alcoholic father and understand that my husband will not change until he wants to change and change for himself. He will not change, give up pot, to keep his marriage, he will only give it up when he realizes that he is harming himself and all of his relationships.

This is what I understand too. In the end, be it addictions or MLC or wandering eye syndrome or just fatigue, we can't change our spouses - we can only take care of us. I don't get the sense from what you have written that you find the problems with your marriage as only your husband's, and Dom's points are correct in terms of all of us being clear sighted about our own participation in our marriages' troubles. But there is also a time to find understanding about deeper issues than merely communication problems - or maybe, more correctly, uncover the deeper issues that are creating the communication problems - and I think that you will find that some of the strength you need to successfully make this journey will come through Al-Anon and other types of support sites.

I will keep sending you strong thoughts and hopes for the understanding and insight needed to make healthy choices - for yourself, your daughter, and your marriage.

Anned