H, listen carefully because I’m only going to say this once. We haven’t had sex since last February and I see no indication that we will have any anytime soon. That is bull sh*t and it hurts me. What is more H is that you KNOW that it hurts me. I’ve told you before that it does. This is nothing new. You choose over and over again to ignore me sexually unless you want a baby. Well, it sucks and it makes me feel miserable, ignored, hurt. I am a hot, horny Mama and we could have a lot of fun in bed. Too bad you don’t care. I don’t want to hear all your crappy excuses about stress, exhaustion, events in our life etc… Don’t think that I don’t realize that I haven’t initiated either but I refuse to rape my own husband. We have had NO reason good enough to go any more than a week without some sexual contact. Unless you are done or fcuking someone else. If so, I have a right to know.
I think I’m a good wife and a good mother and I deserve someone who loves me the way I want to be loved. There is help out there – sex therapists, books, talking to one another and you just go about your way choosing to DO NOTHING and what’s worse, I keep letting you. I’m an idiot and culpable for ALL of my inaction.
I do not intend a divorce but I am reaching my personal limit of giving a sh*t. The woman you know won’t last forever in the h*ll of being alone in our marriage.
Umm, I'd go with the last revision myself. There is honest and there is raw. I thought the last one was honest about your feelings but at least a bit less likely to put him into a defensive mode right away.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
I do not intend a divorce but I am reaching my personal limit of giving a sh*t. The woman you know won’t last forever in the h*ll of being alone in our marriage.
yeah, if you read this carefully, you said "you dont intend a divorce".
however, I bet you dollars to donuts, he will interpret this as, "you're threatening him with divorce."
Phrases like "(I) wont last forever ... in this marriage", will probably be taken like that.
So will,
"i do not intend on divorce, BUT...."
oh. i'd also definately drop the "i'll only say this once". becuase there's good odds, you may have to scream at him more than once.
(not 20 times... but possibly "more than once")
I'd also suggest dropping the self-pitying "i'm an idiot" type stuff. I dont think it helps.. and it distracts from the main crucial issue.
Last edited by Dom R; 01/07/0803:08 AM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
I don’t want to hear all your crappy excuses about stress, exhaustion, events in our life etc…
I think you did a good job about expressing your anger without namecalling or insulting remarks. That shows that you're still in control... good for real life. I don't believe in namecalling in arguments, because once you spew out those words, you can never take them back.
karen, I really want to know: how did it feel writing it out?
Just on your own, not even for publication here, you might try a bout of true, hateful, insulting, namecalling-- just to get down to those feelings. That's pretty personal. too personal for the BB. A good place to do that sort of thing is in the car alone (not while driving of course).
Don't wait until your message is perfect before you start communicating. Don't wait until *you're* perfect. When are you going to quit walking on eggshells and start being Karen? Is her your H really that dainty?
Ask for what you want. If you wanted sex you'd be initiating and you'd have it. You want desire. Tell him you need to feel and believe in his physical desire for you to be happy in your marriage. When he's tired, you need to feel his desire. When he's had a bad day, you need to feel his desire. When the pressures of the world intrude, you need to feel his desire. Tell him he either doesn't feel physical desire for you or he's incapable/unwilling to show you and it's time for you both to get honest about that right now.
Then he'll either put on his big boy pants or he won't.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
I didn't want to leave you hanging from your questions to myself and Corri on your locked thread. I really feel your latest pressure valve release and I think the anger is good ... on the forum that is. It's why I told LFL venting away on the BB was healthy during her episode.
I know I'm in the minority here but I still believe you're better off dealing with H more lovingly. And I don't mean by being an understanding doormat.
As a man, I have two reactions when an F is blasting me with both barrels about something with my behavior:
1. I will give it right back and possibly point a finger right back as well. This would be my natural fight reflex that is on autopilot whenever screaming or adrenaline is involved.
2. I will listen to her berate me and if I feel ashamed by my own behavior I might just retreat and emotionally shut down and go to my cave. This would be my flight reflex in the emotional sense.
I'm just concerned that when tempers flare you will be the one to back down first and I don't think that is your strong point from what I've seen in your interactions with H. Now, GEL, on the other hand, started punching walls and got her H's attention. I think that is her natural personality -- that of being the take charge person in her household.
I think your strength is your stability, your loyalty, your intelligence, both mental and emotional, and patience.
Gee, H, the way you stir those potatoes makes me hot.
Had to throw that one in there too -- and your sense of sarcastic humor. Love it.
First. This.
I suppose on the one hand I am throwing a hissy. I pulled back from H and my M since this pregnancies inception because H pulled back from me for the whole pregnancy itself...
Do you see how nothing good comes from always being in reactive modus? Tit for tat. You're punishing him and, unfortunately for him, he probably doesn't even know it. Proactive proactive proactive.
Silent but deadly is not just for stinky left cheek sneaks. Makes you like Old Faithful. Your resentment slowly builds to the point where, whoosh, you just can't hold it in any longer and it needs to vent.
Next....
I have given him so many unprompted bj's to get him started it is laughable. Guys always think this is the answer. The answer is that my H loves bjs. What follows bjs or hjs varies widely. Sometimes it is just crap/begrudging sex, sometimes good sex.
Sounds pretty darned normal to me in an LTR. Not everyone hits it out of the park every time, no? I can imagine a lot of tired crap sex if I had to immerse myself in what must be a chaotic home environment you've got there.
But this is what I want to focus upon:
Sometimes rubbing up on H, grabbing his stuff, initiating a romantic kiss or the like just leads to the heavy sigh "Oh God, are you still here? You haven't gotten over that crap yet?" is how it sounds to me.
How it "sounds" to you? So he doesn't say anything? Just sighs or huffs? "Oh, God, are you still here?" sounds kind of unfairly harsh towards him IMO. I'm sure he loves your company and might even be hurt to know you think that about him.
Finally....
Is your suggestion that I just whole hog join back in my marriage...
Are you telling me you are not whole hog into your M?
Yes, that would be the first thing I would address. That comes by losing resentment and accepting things exactly how they are with the aim of improving them. Remember, joint effort -- even if it feels like you're doing all the heavy lifting right now.
...kiss H, initiate with H and then when he gives me the "You again?" look point it out so I can really be a b*tch in his eyes? What do I say, "Gee H, seems like you aren't interested wanna tell me why?"?
So now it's a look? In addition to the sigh/huff? The last line. Short answer is, Yes.
If I did that every time H acts that way it would be shaming because even in our early R this would happen a lot and me, in my deluded lust would think, "Oh, he's just inexperienced and needs lots of positive affirmations." So, I would giggle, jokingly cuff him and say, C'mon you know you wanna. Then praise the h@ll out of him...
It is? Don't be responsible for his feelings of shame, Karen. The last part makes you sound pretty fun and teasing. Obviously you have a problem with that now.
It goes back to what I used to tell Ms about using verbals and contrivance. Fs don't like to be put in charge of orchestrating their own seduction since it makes it feel somehow phony.
All to say, I might suggest the honest loving approach with H and not the ball peen hammer to the noggin, since heavy mano e womano combat doesn't seem to be your forte.
It's why I said in my post to call him on it if he balks during your initiating. Here is an illustration of how it might go:
[H gives what Karen says is the "God, you again?" sigh, look, telepathic voodoo whatever]
K: Okay, there it is. (stops)
H: What?
K: The sigh. the look. Most men would be thrilled to have a woman interested in hot sex.
H: I am. I'm just tired, stressed blah blah blah...
K: Do you think it's normal not to have sex with your wife for nearly a year? Hm?
H: What ... I don't know. I guess not. Things are just crazy.
K: You're right, it's not normal. And I want to know why. I want to know right now what you feel about sex and how often you think we should be having sex.
H: (squirms) I don't know, Karen ... I don't like discussing it.
K: (grabbing H's hand lovingly yet firmly) I want ... to know ... what you thik about sex. Tell me so I can understand where you're coming from. Please help me understand, honey... I love you and I want you to be happy. I want us to be happy. etc....
Anyway, just trying to show you the calm yet very direct and forceful confrontation without resorting to anger. And do not let him off the hook on the question of his most raw feelings towards sex -- even if you have to repeat yourself, "I want to know what you feel is a normal, healthy sex life...." etc
Can you be laser focused and persistent with him, Karen? Not blink? Not back down? Not let him off the hook or let him make excuses?
It just seems to me to be more productive in getting to his deepest levels of trusting you about the topic IMO than brute force.
Instead of resorting to hurling "you don't' "you aren't" you you you anger where I'm afraid in a knockdown, drag out between you two you will back down from him in media res.
-Stigmata-
PS. I still have a very strong feeling H is MBing regularly, which is sapping his natural buildup of "horniness." Might want to ask him to be very honest with you and tell you how often he MBs and that you won't think he's weird no matter how often it is.
Might even say how often you MB to show you can be vulnerable too. Then, if he is, ask if he can refrain for a month and come to you for a HJ/BJ whenever the urge pops up. You would be more than happy to be in charge of his need for release.
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
I think your strength is your stability, your loyalty, your intelligence, both mental and emotional, and patience.
Translation: You are clearly locked in the role of the nice cow/teacher in this relationship so you should operate from there instead of trying something new and really shaking up the dynamic.
Quote:
PS. I still have a very strong feeling H is MBing regularly, which is sapping his natural buildup of "horniness." Might want to ask him to be very honest with you and tell you how often he MBs and that you won't think he's weird no matter how often it is.
Might even say how often you MB to show you can be vulnerable too. Then, if he is, ask if he can refrain for a month and come to you for a HJ/BJ whenever the urge pops up. You would be more than happy to be in charge of his need for release. \:\)
Nice Cow/Mommy: I want you to tell me the truth. It will be okay. Are you going poopee in the corner? It's okay to go poopee. Everybody goes poopee. Even Cow/Mommys like me go poopee. How 'bout we buy you some big boy pants and you can go poopee in the potty like Mommy!
Puppy: Thank you so much for talking to me and being so nice. From now on I will be a big boy! No more poopee in the corner!
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think LP's advice to throw a hissy fit was the closest to best. I don't think you should vibe all angry/controlling Lioness unless you want your H to react by becoming submissive horny monkey. Heres my advice:
PHASE 1 1) Go to the Juniors department of your favorite store. Buy yourself some very inappropriately ultra low rise jeans that show off your "assets". Maybe a baby doll T and a thong too.
2) Make a bowl of popcorn.
3) Attired in above ensemble, rudely interrupt your H's viewing of Nerd Trek by throwing popcorn at him. If/when he objects, flash booty and say "Doubtful I'm going to listen to you. What are you going to do about it?" Laugh.
4) Leave room.
PHASE 2
1)Lie on bed when H enters bedroom.
2) Be licking sucker. Take out of mouth and say "Want some?" to H. Shrug and ignore any rude or blustering response he might make.
3) Expose p*ssy to H. Say "Want some?". Shrug and ignore any rude or blustering response he might make.
PHASE 3
Wash Rinse Repeat with Variation
****************************************
I agree with Stig that your H is projecting St.Bernard for public consumption and being sexually monkey in private. He's doing this for reasons of self-control. My theory is that if you vibe even more out-of-control monkey than him, he will be compelled to control you in a sexual manner in order to feel in control. He won't be able to gain relaxation just by MBing if you step out of Mommy role and he has to wonder what you are up to.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
If/when he objects, flash booty and say "Doubtful I'm going to listen to you. What are you going to do about it?"
Is this a chance to use my new word?
Ita with Mojo. The "letters" while a good exercise for you would prolly just make him defensive and Stig's approach is been there, done that. Out of control Monkey might be just the ticket. Also has the advantage to serve as "warning" that something's coming.
In typical male fashion he's probably convinced himself that all is well because all was peaceful on the surface, and SG's No 1 rule for the treatment of men is that their wee brains need to adjust to changes in direction. Think object moving through a vacuum. You know, just for the sake of metaphor.
Don't do the nice approach! It WON'T WORK! You've been nice all along Karen. Stig, you are nuttier than a fruitcake. Patience? The last thing Karen needs to rely on is her patience. Not if she wants change and a good SL. I like the monkey behavior approach but I still don't think that is going to work (without the in your face stuff to soon follow).
But I agree with the others, stop planning it and just do it. Take some action. I'm sure you will be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner.
