time for honesty & truth for a new beginning pt 3

[ediemarie]

I am so scared to say what you said to your h, because my h will go right along with it

You don't have to say it now...just know that you have options. I just see that you guys have a power struggle going on in your lives - he is pulling away and you are trying to pull him close. In Love Must Be Tough, Dobson points out that when a partner wants out, or says they want space, the best thing you can do is provide it. I have come to the conclusion that the title of the book is fitting, because it is TOUGH to deliver that kind of "love". To love the way the other person wants to be loved is so difficult/tough. *Things aren't going to improve in your R until the power struggle is over.* Is there a way that you can stop the power struggle?

I know you are scared, but what I don't think you know is that you are doing well. You are trying to get a move on with your life and you are telling your H when he is disrespecting you. This is huge. Do not underestimate it. And don't stop doing it.

Listen to your H. He really doesn't know what to do to make things better. He doesn't know HOW to get himself out of this mess. From our stand point it's easy - just dump the OW. From the standpoint of the WAS it just isn't that easy. Have you ever read Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass? What a great read. It really outlines the A from all 3 sides and it is really helpful. Even my H said, just today, that book is the only marriage self-help book that seemed to REALLY understand what he was going through during his A and how it happened. (and how to fix things). Not a bad book to have "lying" around the house. I didn't even know he had read it - but he did.

I'll check in on ya later!
Hugs
Em

[Jeanette1120]

bear

You have so many clues, you just need to act on them now.

Now lets take your fist clue. Neither one is moving out. This now confirms you are ROOMMATES! Roommates do not do others laundry, cooking, shopping and onon.......got it?

If he thinks he is confused now, just try this and see what happenes. It will amaze you!!

Hang in there bear

Jeanette

[phbear316]

Hi Jeanette and EM

After i took down the tree and vacuumed up like a million plus pine needles, still to this minute the cat still has some in her fur. Always so nice to have a real tree, but the needle issue is just here till august. LOL

H was asleep on couch, just left and went to church. When i got home h says to me, where did you go, i said church, oh h says. H says what do you want to do for dinner, i say, i will find something here to eat. H says no don't cook lets go out. Ok your paying i'm going. Need to eat something. we go to the diner.

I am just so full of venom its unreal, i don't like myself this way. As we are eating dinner, a coworker of h walks into the diner, he just looks at us and keeps walking. Now keep in mind in the past this person would have stopped, given me a hug and a kiss, stood and talked for a few minutes. Nothing. Just nonsense talk at dinner with h.
We leave and its just eating at me, we get in the truck and i say to h, so now no one will acknowledge me anymore they will talk to me anymore, i just the bitch wife? H says what are you talking about, well it looks to me that they all like her better than me and i am now the outsider, John did not say a word like he usually does, what was up with that, i used to get such a nice greeting from him in the past. I guess now i get treated like crap now by your friends and staff. H says nothing.

I said before i left he house i needed to go food shopping, After the diner, h says is the the shoprite you want to go to? I'm like you don't have to come or take me food shopping you hate it so i can come back out myself. H says no we are out, we can go. OK, we shop, I say i need something to make for dinner tomorrow night, h says i thought we were going out tomorrow night for my birthday? I said you still want to go, Yes of course he says. Ok. Good i don't have to cook for another night. H says to me can we get this for dinner one night this week, i'm like your going to be home for dinners? He says yes why not? Oh lord, I'm like ok if you want that but you will have to start it if is a night when i go to the gym. He is like I know not a problem.

When h is helping me unload the groceries, he sees the flyer from the church service from today, I said it was really a nice service celebrating the Epiphany, h say oh at the local catholic church i I say no holy trinity (lutheran), the church we got married in. H says oh i did not think you would go to that church, i said why we were married in that church, and i agreed to join your church when we were planning on getting married. So it made sense for me to go back there. H says nothing.

God give me strength, what is this nit wit up to? This is in my mind pure guilt, guilt, guilt.

I'm trying to hang on. EM i think you right he does not know what to do. I think i hit him hard with the disrespect thing this afternoon, but probably not.

Its sad, part of me feels terrible i did not get him a card for his birthday tomorrow, but part of me is like you don't deserve one from me. You need to earn one. But that he will never see. All i think he is dreaming about is signing me out of his life, by signing divorce papers.

I don't think he is going to see anything jeanette, not one thing. just her. not me, i don't exist to him anymore, i am just a voice that annoys him, a fat blob that is around the house.

Check in later

Thanks jeanette and EM
Hugs
bear

[LL44]

Hi phbear....

I have been following your thread a lot lately. My H is at home, has been having an A all summer. It *might* be coming to an end at the moment, but who knows. For the last 2 months, I have treated H like a roommate. I don't leave him dinner anymore (I work 4pm-12m, H has kids at night). I don't do anything for him anymore. I clean our house (as does he, even more so) and take care of the kids when I have them, but its his life now. I dont' ask him where he is going, and don't question him when he gets home.

As someone once told me "Free him to be an idiot" and that's just what I have done. I am not rude or uncaring, I am just treating him like a roommate. We aren't in a relationship, even if we are married on paper. He betrayed me, lied to me, disrespected me, why should I try to take care of this person?

If you don't mind, I would love to point some things out to you....you seem to be saying your actions need to change, but then you do the same things, explaining them away.. Just last night your H spent the entire night with another woman. And you ate dinner with him tonight?

i'm going. Need to eat something. we go to the diner.

You should have thanked him for the offer, but said you had plans and left the house. He had sex with someone last night and it wasn't you!

I'm like you don't have to come or take me food shopping you hate it so i can come back out myself.

If you did end up eating with him, you should have just let him drive home, then YOU leave again, by yourself, with a "I'll be back later".

i thought we were going out tomorrow night for my birthday? I said you still want to go, Yes of course he says.

I couldn't even look my H in the eyes for months, much less want to celebrate his birthday with him!

i'm like your going to be home for dinners? He says yes why not?

Don't ask!!! Don't make any plans to eat with him! Yes, you are in the same home, but please remember once again, he had sex with another woman last night! My H threatened all summer to move out, and when I finally let him go, he won't leave. Fine, but I am detaching every single day. You are allowing yourself pain by trying to stay in his life at this time.

Its sad, part of me feels terrible i did not get him a card for his birthday tomorrow,

Just last night, you were going to separate your money and start removing him from your every day life, now you are going to possibly buy him a card?

Oh phbear, I know your pain. I feel it every day too. Its unspeakable. My H got his OW a mothers bracelet (with her kids name on it, she is married as well) for Christmas. That just shouts disrespect, just like your H buying expensive purses for his OW, while shopping AFTER the holidays for something for you, while you are with him! Please stop hurting yourself like this. I don't mean to come down hard on you but really, I want you to start respecting yourself. My H doesn't respect me, so I am choosing to not be around him as much as possible. We are friends, distant friends, and darn good co-parents. But that's it for right now.

I was so terrified H would leave all summer, now I am grateful that he didn't 'come back to me' then, because I would have accepted him no matter what. Now I see that I deserve more, and either he cleans his mess up, or I will start mediation soon. Would you date this person that your husband has become? Would you marry him if he cheated on you while you were engaged?

Your H is a decent kind person, lost in some sort of fog. He is the only one that can get himself out of this. He doesn't want your help, he will reject it. It will backfire on you. Helping him when he has a migraine will NOT bring him back to you. It only shows your weakness.

Have you read Not Just Friends? It is very painful to read, but it opened my eyes to just how 'deep' H was in this R with OW, and made me realize that he took what he used to give to me (emotions, intimacy, respect, caring) and is giving it to someone else. I have not closed the door on him yet, but I will soon because I don't deserve someone 'half here'. You don't either. Please stick to the goals you have set out for yourself. Is your H really there anyway? Its just his body, a safe place for him, where no one knows about his A, a place to crash.

I hope you aren't mad, but I really want to try to help!

PS: Hi Edie!!!

[phbear316]

morning all

No lwb, i am not mad. I am just hurting. I keep thinking about that statement of my h saying we just grew apart. No you grew away from me. I saw it, it was over the job. He became powerful, impatient, and had not time for me. I just stood there and am still standing here just waiting. I did not push or bring things up because i did not want to put anymore pressure on him. So i kept my mouth shut. And look where i am at for it.

I hear every word you are all saying to me, but i just cannot let go, i feel if i let go is will be like a speeding train away from me at full speed.

I know i cannot make him love me, make him have respect for me, i know all these things. Its just the thought of losing him totally, and being served with divorce papers just makes me sick. I know i cannot make him give me another chance but that is what i wish for. I want the field to be even, I want to control something. I want to try and if it does not work out, well i want to have an opinion about it, not have one made for me. Sorry rambling this am, just feeling so low.

Do i really want to take him out to dinner for his birthday, part of me is like no, part of me is yes, its still his birthday. I guess i am trying to show him at least I still respect him and i respect people in general. I am hoping that if i show him respect, he will be respectful to me. I know this is impossible, i know. Just rambling today like i said before.

I was wondering, i was thinking of leaving h a copy of the letting go statement, you all know the one. letting go does not mean i don't care about you.. Someone here sent it to me. I was thinking of leaving it for h to find when i go away. Still on the fence but getting a lot easier, now trust me. Stupid idea or what?

Oh last night i went and snooped in the suitcase, i found the paperwork from the wedding, so i took it and hid it away. Since we do not have a joint savings account, when i go tomorrow to open my own checking account i am going to take $218 out of the checking account and add it to my saved money since he used our joint american express card to pay for the room. I want him to confront me about it. I really do. It was one thing i did say to h yesterday about the christmas gift he may have bought her, i'm not happy with you spending my money on her. H claims he did not buy her anything, right i said don't believe you. H did say about the gym bag is what he thought i would like since i am going to the gym for me and doing something good for me i would like it. No i said i did not want something as an afterthought. H then says to me will if there was something you wanted why did you not tell me? WHAT? UGH

I did jab him when we were driving last night, we were talking about gps units like Tom toms, etc. H was being all bossy cause they use them at work, and i said well i don't know how they operate, so i am no expert, but i have always wanted one, but every time i would bring it up, like when i say one on qvc, you were never interested so i gave up hoping you would get us one.

I know the things i have to do, just so hurt right now scared. I will be pushing myself to do this. I need to do this, i know this. Its just going to take me some time.

((((hugs))) to all I will be back later going for a walk to clear my head and call my mom.

bear

[ediemarie]

(((Bear))) I think you are thinking in the right direction. I think you are getting there. I know it's difficult. It took me a year and three months to REALLY let my H go, to stop fighting so desperately for my M. Keep thinking about ways in which you can let him go - little by little, if you can't do it all at once. Let his birthday go. Don't do a thing for it. Remember what happened with the Christmas gifts? He wasn't too appreciative of them, was he? Every day concentrate on letting go a little more. And when you let something of him go, fill that space with something for you.

I know you're hurt and scared. This is tough stuff. Really tough.

good for you about the checking account and the money. I think you should buy yourself something really awesome for $218. A new coat, new clothes, a manicure/pedicure, think of all the things you could do with that money.

We're all here for you!

HUGS!!

[JennyF]

Hey Bear,
I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Your H is being so disrespectful. I sometimes wonder if I would prefer being in your sitch where my H still lived at home, but was invlolved w/ OW. When I read your sitch, I am glad he is not. I believe he is moving this whole process along quicker by being out of the house and persuing his so called "grass is greener" life with OW. The sooner he can go down that road the sooner he'll learn it isn't any greener. In fact it's all yellow and skanky with grubs and weeds all over it. And it's probably been mowed so many times it looks like astroturf! Sorry...I can get carried away with a metaphor!

You've gotten so much great advice from so people and I think you're getting there.
I'm sorry if this sounds like a 2X4, but when you come on these boards and vent...you sound so strong and so aware of what you want to do (don't we all!!!)...but then it sounds like you lose that courage when you're with H (again...don't we all...). But when it comes to things like dinners (both in and out), laundry and all that other stuff...it would seem to me from your H's perspective that you are accepting this. Yes you're mad about it...yes you want it to end...but you're not really changing anything and he's totally cake eating.

Do you think there is a chance that you could be prolonging this whole ordeal by not putting your foot down soon? I don't think you have to completely detatch to do this...just start making those changes that Jeanette and SG have been talking about for so long like not doing his laundry.
From all that I've read they have to go through this journey one way or another and you may be prolonging the hard part of truly letting him go to work it out. The sooner you do this the sooner he may work through it. At least that's how I'm trying to look at it.

I've just come to the point where I don't care if I PO of H anymore. I've been on eggshells for so long that it's an automatic defence to react in a way that doesn't make him mad. Well screw him. He's done everything wrong for so long that I am entitled to doing things my way regardless of whether or not it makes him mad. I know it sound anti-DB'ing....but not really. It's actually a 180 from what I have been doing. When what you've been doing doesn't work...do something different!!!
I know that something is different is scary. And that it may mean that you have to lose him. But just imagine that it may just be losing him temporarily.

Again, I so sorry things have gone this way.
J~

[LL44]

I've just come to the point where I don't care if I PO of H anymore. I've been on eggshells for so long that it's an automatic defence to react in a way that doesn't make him mad. Well screw him. He's done everything wrong for so long that I am entitled to doing things my way regardless of whether or not it makes him mad. I know it sound anti-DB'ing....but not really. It's actually a 180 from what I have been doing. When what you've been doing doesn't work...do something different!!!

Jenny! YES YES YES!! This is exactly where I am now. I used to worry sooo much about ticking H off, or pushing him away until I realized that I will annoy him no matter what I do since I am 'the enemy', and he is already soooo distant from me, nothing I would do/not do would change that.

phbear, I kid you not. When he goes out at night, I leave his clothes in the basement when I wash mine. Now, he washes my clothes, which I really don't like. I feel so far away from him now, that even something as intimate as him washing my sexy cotton undies feels weird to me. But then again, wash away...less I have to do.

You have GOT to change something up. Anything. He is coasting. He doesn't respect you. I would change your behavior WAY before you give him any sort of letter.

Let's go over your Christmas gifts to him. First, you were going to leave them, let him open them. He didn't open them, so you opened them, and put them away, vowing you weren't going to say a word about them. Well, you brought them up to H, bringing him awkwardness, and brought you pain. You planned to do something different and yet you did exactly what you said you weren't going to do. And it backfired. And now you are debating whether or not you should get him a birthday card AND eat dinner with this man??? Once again, he had sex with someone else, and actually left you a note telling you. You are his wife! You deserve more than a note. Start changing or he will eventually leave anyway.

[Jeanette1120]

bear I know it hurts. I know you would rather be anyplace else in this world than where your sitting right now.

I know you unerstand many thing, but if you didn't before, then LWB's post should have clarified them to you.

Sure we are here to sayve our marriage, but we are not going to dump our pride down the toilet in doing so.

How do you leave a note saying your going to be out all night, sorry if I hurt you. Then the next day take him out for his birthday dinner. This is why I asked you earlier if you are not at all weirded out sitting with him during dinner? Perhpaps that was just me

You have GOT to change something up. Anything. He is coasting. He doesn't respect you. I would change your behavior WAY before you give him any sort of letter.

Amen. It's time bear......bring it out and bring it on.

Hugs sweet one

Jeanette

[LL44]

For the record, I believe in the 'letting go' statement. But...

I was wondering, i was thinking of leaving h a copy of the letting go statement, you all know the one. letting go does not mean i don't care about you..

This will not work. He will not read it. If he reads it, it won't sink in. I am sorry but he doesn't care right now. I only know this because I have a H just like yours. If my H did read a letter I gave him, he would never comment on it, hurting me even more. ACTIONS will work, only actions. Of course, after you start changing some of your passive behaviors, there would be nothing wrong with giving him a quick 'letting you go' speech. And I mean quick, 3 or 4 sentences, then walking away. And NO CALLS to him while on vacation. In fact, ask him to not call YOU while you are gone.

Of course you want your marriage. I want nothing more than my family to stay together. But, I have learned that I can't be a person that just accepts my H having an A. Either we begin a new relationship together, or we go alone into the world. Only time and our actions will decide this.