What has that bought me so far? A failed M and a second M where I over-romanticized a really great guy who is probably somewhat ill suited to me.
That's because you haven't added the honesty piece yet. I know you think you have but have you really said any of this to your H? It doesn't seem like you are willing to go there yet.
Quote:
I have great hope that with H's participation we could have both romance & commitment.
I know. But how are you going to get to the "his participation" part? You seem to just being going on a lot of hope and not a lot of action. Hope I'm not coming off too harsh. I really just want you to succeed. Then we can share hot sex stories!
Well guys - so far all my attempts at "honesty" with H have led nowhere so hitting over the head with a more brutal form doesn't seem as if it will succeed but maybe I'm wrong. Then when I gave an example of what I thought was pretty honest but yet respectful of his space and mine I got the general impression that some thought it was too lite and others too finger pointing. In the end I will do what I want to do and right now ending this stale mate is looking like what I want to do. Whatever happens. Thing is that it is rarely satisfying to end the stale mate because my "honesty" fizzles in the face of H's "but this but that....and can't you understand x happened, then y, and I am still hurting because so and so died." Then I just feel like a heel and settle in for another drought. I know that sounds like "poor me" but it is just kinda how it has gone in the past. So, do I just push past the excuses and say "Not good enough H. Just a smokescreen H" or something like that.
Karen
IC - calling me a lady might be a stretch.
LFL - his participation can only be decided by him. So far all my "plans" for it have come to nothing so I'm not really holding my breath. However, all my inaction is killing me and it will have to end.
Ok at the risk of watering it down here is a re-format:
I love you and we have a problem. We have not had sex in almost a year. About six months ago I made a decision not to pursue you for sex that you don't want to have and see what would happen. What has happened is that you and I have widened our distance even more. I have told you before that I would like to have sex with you no less than once a week, preferably 3 times. You have repeatedly indicated that if I backed off you would step up to the plate and initiate when you were interested. That hasn't happened.
I feel suspicious that there are deeper issues like an emotional or physical or computer affair, pornography addiction, anxiety, emotional sexual issues, depression or something like that. If that is the case, I need you to get honest about it. There are certified sex therapists in our area that I hope you will consider seeing. I can send you a link so you can choose one if you want. I have a bookcase full of material on sex and marriage that I hope you will consider reading and maybe even discussing with me whatever the problem is.
Of course, the blame does not rest solely on you. For my part, I will make myself available to you for sex and affection on a daily basis but I won't participate in half -hearted attempts. I will take responsibility for initiating sexual activity of some sort once/week. You have the right to refuse. I have no intention of leaving this marriage but there is a window of opportunity on my wholehearted effort that will eventually close if I find I am the only one trying. If you allow it to close I cannot say what kind of marriage we will have.
I agree about the language issue. But what his symbolic language says to me is that he made a terrible mistake in choosing [me...]
Wow... I do not get that at all, from what I remember reading what you wrote about your husband.
Do you think you are maybe projecting your own feelings.. that you feel that YOU made a terrible mistake in choosing HIM ?
Quote:
Done that. He just got mad and said, "Oh, so you are saying we are headed for divorce? You don't think I love you?" Nothing change except he entered another shame/denial/hiding phase.
Sigh...
Karen. what happened, was that you threatened him. You threatened him in just about the most hurtful way a wife can threaten her husband. ["I dont want to be with you any more, you're not worth it".] He went into defensive mode. all he "heard" was the threat. That's why he reacted the way he did.
The words you quoted from him, if taken as a reflection of his true feelings (which I believe they are and always have been) completely disprove your worries i quoted at the top.
He loves you. he wants to be with you. he's just being unconcionably selfish with reguards to sex.
-------
Karen, I believe, that you trying to win him over, through your own logic, and pressure, and threats, is a very difficult battle to "win", becuase he believes that he is "in the right". Nothing you have attempted with him so far, changes that in any way.
How about letting things cool off for a day or two... maybe even actively be nice to him for a day or two... and then approaching him with the biblical basis? Telling him... not via threats or aggression, but with humility... that you want from him, what God and the bible promises to you from your husband?
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
karen, FWIW I did not and have not seen any of your statements as a "hissy fit." If anything, it's possible you are being TOO understanding and TOO tolerant. Your sitch is so much like mine... I'm too ready to understand why bf has problems with sex and cut him some slack. Anyway, that's history for me now, but it's not for you.
I'd like to see a post from you that truly SOUNDS (or reads anyway) like a real, honest-to-goodness, ball-breaking, window-rattling HISSY FIT!
Your statement of your feelings and your understanding of his feelings are very cool and rational. I'd like to hear something really angry and resentful, bitter, hateful, destructive from you. Just as an exercise, mind you.
I really believe that the breakthrough between LFL and her H (which I believe is PERMANENT, LFL) happened because she opened her wound and showed what she was prepared to do-- namely sleep with someone else. I believe this put them back on equal footing, finally evening the "score" in his mind over his moving out way back yonder.
karen, your hypothetical emails to your H read like case notes, not like the emotional overflow of a sexy, deeply loving, wife and mother who is being left to dry on the vine. There's this superiority that comes across, kind of like the superiority that some men exhibit when a woman is crying... sort of a "there, there, get over that emotional nonsense and tell me logically what is bothering you." I see both of you being logical and distant.
Just for the heck of it, blast out a post-- here only-- where you let 'er rip and tell him EXACTLY where he is screwing up (or not screwing), exactly how you feel about it, and since you will NEVER divorce him, how he can expect you to keep throwing it in his face until you are both too old to throw!!
So what if people here tell you to be nicer to him or more understanding... what the heck do any of us know?
FWIW - I have never explicitly nor implicitly threatened H. I have never used the D word - only he has. I have merely told him how hurtful the lack of sex in the R is, how it makes me feel and how I don't think it is healthy nor is it what either of us intended when we said I do. That alone caused the shame/denial/hiding. What would happen if I really let loose? Dunno - probably he would consider leaving.
H, in February it will be a year since we had sex. The only reason that it has been a year is because you don't get off your sorry azz and show me that you want to and I quit chasing. In fact H for the majority of this R it has been that way. It is my fault that I allowed you to trick me into your version of nirvana - bearing and raising children, working my azz off, going to church and denying myself the simple pleasure of a love affair with my own husband. Now, here we are.
I am a healthy red blooded woman, I want to have hot sex no less than every couple of days, period. I want different kinds too - not SOS. I vowed to God to love you and be with you forever and I will do so. If you hold me hostage to monogamy with no sex then I will eventually turn into a cold hard b*tch. Hope that is ok with you since that is where we are going. What I am really having trouble tolerating is that you have told me that you have no problem getting your rocks off to whatever porn strikes your fancy. I assume that you are continuing to do so at my expense. It is not ok. It is not right and it p*sses me off.
The thing that really gets me is that the fundamental issue may be really easy to fix. There may be some sexual stuff that you are afraid to share or that you think I wouldn't like. Well, how the h*ll would you know since you haven't taken the time or effort to see what I am capable of sexually or what we together are capable of.
So H, do whatever you want. You can have my partnership and cooperation or you can just hold me prisoner to this sick, twisted thing that we have going.
I'm pulling for ya kid!