Stuck in Neutral - MN Man's 5th thread

[MinnesotaMan]

Do I want to try and save my marriage?

I think so.

It seems so bleak though, since she's apparently cruising for guys before we're even divorced. Not that she really puts much stock in the "sanctity of marriage" anyway. She figures because she left, we're as good as divorced. I'm thinking differently - I know I was briefly pseudo-involved with someone, but I realized that I felt it was wrong.

And hell, at least I can explain (not excuse) my actions by the fact that I felt lonely and abandoned. Right now it doesn't feel like anyone could hold a candle to what W brought to me life. Melodramatic, yes. But whenever I think of the idea of dating someone, I know I'll end up (at least at first) comparing them to W.

I'm thinking about confronting her about this. Since she's clearly looking for a date, less than four months after we split, and we aren't even divorced yet. I don't even know if she's filed the paperwork. It just seems tacky.

...f**k. See. I don't know what I want. She and I obviously hold different viewpoints and moral values - and she's got some serious issues, I guess.


It's so easy to let the anger at her mask anything else. To just let that over-ride the hurt, the pain, the lonliness - to try and feel justified in being belligerent about her.

I'm doing better in other areas of my life, but my mixed feelings for W are holding me back. In part, I'm so hurt and angry because of the events of most of 2007... but in others I still love her so much.

I wouldn't have married her otherwise.

[MinnesotaMan]

I just had a pretty good talk with my roommate.

She highlighted for me the fact that W was often unwilling to compromise on things that mattered a lot to me, or to even really acknowledge some of my opinions as valid.

She didn't slam my W. She helped me take into account the very real day-to-day issues that were problematic.

And that W still hides herself from reality to a large degree. W "games" (RPG's, pen-and-paper) at least 3-4 nights a week; two of the others are filled watching TV shows. All with the same small group of people.

I was trying to break away from gaming some, citing to W "I want to spend more time together; we don't get enough real time with each other". She told me "If you don't want to go to gaming, you can sit at home. I'm going anyway."

Not just once or twice, but almost always. I had to persuade her to cancel gaming to celebrate our wedding anniversary. She even said "well, we could have lunch, and then go gaming."

OK. So I'm focusing on that one aspect a lot - but it was almost an addiction for her. Still is.

It also shows some of the lack of willinness to compromise.

My god. It may honestly be the case that I might be better without her. That's a tough thing to realize.

[phbear316]

MinnesotaMan

Hi

Seems like your wife hid in the gaming world my H hid in the work world. Something in them consumed them and took them over.

Its not a slam to your wife at all, its just the truth of an outsider looking in at the truth. I now am beginning to see that with my H. Work came first nothing else could hold a candle to it.

Sounds very much like an addiction one that you cannot help her with, she has to realize she out that first in her life, nothing else. Not you , you sound like you tried to help, get her to take a break, but she did not and does not see it. Someday I hope she will, but you cannot fix that part that is wrong.

you are right show total lack of willingness to compromise, it show a lot of other things too.

I cannot judge your statement of you may be better with out her, for she may at some point get what she has done and realize it, but as you say tough thing to realize.

Hope you are feeling ok, how is it going with the meds? Let me know

(((hugs)))
phbear

[Gone Dancin']

I'm thinking about confronting her about this. Since she's clearly looking for a date, less than four months after we split, and we aren't even divorced yet.

First of all, sit on this for 48 hrs and then decide if it is still a good idea, or something that you think will bring you closer to your goals. And the latter is the big issue here -- how is confronting her going to help you? You pointing fingers at her, trying to make her feel guilty, being the "right-sayer", etc, is honestly going to accomplish nothing IMO. She's going to have to work through this on her own and battle with her own demons. Don't you think she knows what she's doing? Don't play the father role in telling her what's right and wrong, okay and not okay, etc. It will only push her further away. It is a control behavior. You must let her make these choices, live the consequences, and decide on her own that she made and is making a mistake. If you try to control this process, it will either only prolong this understanding or prohibit it altogether.

GD

[MinnesotaMan]

bear - thanks for the hugs.


And, I think you're right-on on the addiction thing. It's kind of sad.

My "better without her"... It's hard, but I do think my needs were being brushed off. I know I didn't meet all of hers, but hell, she dismissed many of my requests as unimportant.

Ex: We were supposed to do this big camping thing, and share a tent with B and A. And then we learned that B's nephew (9) was going to be going to the event, too. I told my W that I didn't really want to share a tent with a little kid, when at the end of the day I would want to relax.

She responded that B and A said he was really mature for his age and such; I said that it was the kid factor, and having to edit everything I said - not that I planned to be foul or anything, but still. This discussion continued, for about 5 or so minutes.

I proposed just setting up our tent. Her: "You're going to have to set it up and take it down yourself, then, because I don't want to deal with that."

Of course, a few days later she left me, so the camping thing happened differently, but still.

*sighs*

So I think I may be in love with an idealized version of her, or a person who doesn't really exist anymore.

GD - Well, I'm going to be talking to her on Monday (tomorrow) at about 5:30.

I think she's been very tacky in all of this. Acting to my face as a friend, and yet acting "whoo, I'm single!" otherwise.

I'm not exactly expecting her to be as upset and hurt as I am, but I guess I did expect some class.

I'm so tired.

[phbear316]

MMan

I agree with GD, you need to wait, Maybe you should not meet her tomorrow, maybe you should cancel last minute. can i ask why are you meeting with her? I agree it is very tacky that she is acting the way she is. If you do have to meet with her and want to meet with her, just keep to the subject you need to speak to her about.

Remember you can control the meeting tomorrow, go and keep to a agenda, write it down, do be ashamed to I do it with my h, and will continue to do it. If she goes off course, say well its time for me to go. If she gets mad, let her.

Trust me with my own situations she will not be upset, get that right out of your mind. Someone here told me even if you think they are showing you that they are upset, lies are coming out of their mouths. I see that now with my h, the tears and sobbing hours before he left to go to florida for xmas. It was all a show of lies. I know that but still have a glimmer of hope that he really did mean just one tear of sadness. why I keep hoping that is true i do not know

Remember you, I mean YOU can control the meeting tomorrow, keep that in mind. Even if is something very important you need to discuss with her, keep to your agenda, when you are done getting the information you need, end the meeting. Say well good to see you, I've got to run. Leave. Go around the corner and if you must feel sad, but take a deep breath, you have to show her she is not in control of you, you are in control of you. (GOD i so have to listen to my own words)

Good luck, let us know what happens, you will do great! Keep that chin up!

(((((hugs)))))
bear

[Gone Dancin']

My "better without her"... It's hard, but I do think my needs were being brushed off. I know I didn't meet all of hers, but hell, she dismissed many of my requests as unimportant.

Ex: We were supposed to do this big camping thing, and share a tent with B and A. And then we learned that B's nephew (9) was going to be going to the event, too. I told my W that I didn't really want to share a tent with a little kid, when at the end of the day I would want to relax.

She responded that B and A said he was really mature for his age and such; I said that it was the kid factor, and having to edit everything I said - not that I planned to be foul or anything, but still. This discussion continued, for about 5 or so minutes.

I proposed just setting up our tent. Her: "You're going to have to set it up and take it down yourself, then, because I don't want to deal with that."

Quite honestly, I don't see that as a really big deal either way. I mean, you're only sleeping in the tent -- not that big of a deal, is it? Just doesn't seem like a very good example of her dismissing important needs in your M. Sorry, but I think this example is worthy of reflection.

GD - Well, I'm going to be talking to her on Monday (tomorrow) at about 5:30.

I think she's been very tacky in all of this. Acting to my face as a friend, and yet acting "whoo, I'm single!" otherwise.

I'm not sure what you mean here -- are you saying you still plan on discussing this with her? If so, I respect you're decision, but really want to caution against doing so one last time. And if you do bring it up, my guess is that you won't feel any better about things afterwards, and may even regret it.

One last thing -- don't you think that the fact that you were searching profiles on Match will tell W that your actions aren't really any better than hers? Just a thought I had. It will either say that a) you're spying on her or tracking her actions/choices, or b) that you're looking for a date or more yourself. There are other ways, places, websites, etc, to meet people that you have no dating interest in. Match doesn't really fit the "friends only" description, you know, and I'm sure W will think about this.

Take care, and try not to play the blame game or keep score with W -- it won't benefit you in the long run. I understand it's early, but just keep this in mind. When you're healthy enough emotionally to deal with the sitch, you'll need to work on avoiding the above things in order to heal properly, with or without W.

GD

[Torchbearer]

I agree wholeheartedly with GD. Do not talk w/ your W about seeing her profile on Match.com or that you don't like the way she's acting single. The fact is you are separated. Her behaviors are her own. The more you try to control her, or correct her, the more she will rebel. That was one of the big things that I realized with my own M.

Over the years I would never let H do the "fix it" stuff on his own. I always "knew better." I wouldn't trust him to take care of it and would insist on calling my Dad (who is really good at that stuff, but I should've let H do it), or I'd ask friends, or I'd look it up on the internet. Basically I listened to everyone else's opinion except his. Not only was it really controlling of me, but it was downright rude and invalidated his opinions and abilities. I have since been working really hard at backing off. Guess what - it's much more relaxing realizing I don't always have to be in control or better yet, I don't always have to be "right."

Telling your W that you don't approve of her behavior is inappropriate. She is an adult. Whether or not you agree with her behaviors is irrelavent. She is free to act as she will. You are most likely not even a factor in her decisions (harsh reality, I know). And, as GD said, you looking around on Match.com and finding her profile is no better behavior than her being out their. As my H likes to say, "Pot, meet kettle."

I would leave it alone. If you are going to still talk with her. Talk about something else. It's a confusing time for you both, tread lightly.

[MinnesotaMan]

...As for me looking on the site - last Friday was actually the first time since I'd made the profile (right after I found out about W and B making out), mostly in a "I wonder if she's set up a profile yet."

What I intend to talk to her about today is, basically: "If you're acting single and looking for dates, I was wondering when you're going to get around to filing."

See - she's asking me to keep my name as the primary on the car insurance, since she'll get a better rate with me. She wants to keep the joint account open for a little longer because it's easier for things to be withdrawn from there. But she's acting single. She wants the benefits of being married to me, without any of the commitment.

So, yeah, I'm making it about me - in the sense of I've actually been as respectful as possible to her, without any return. If she's going to act single, she owes me (yes, owes me) the dignity of starting to legally (and morally) start the separation process.

And even though I was confused about my own weird pseudo-dating thing, I realized that I wasn't in a moral or emotional to date.

And I also suppose that I don't want to put this off, since it's something that needs to be talked about anyway. And putting it off will only add anxiety

(speaking of - I think the AD's are starting to have their first signs of effects. Like, positive not negative)


EDIT:

OK, so reading that, I see that I'm still pi**ed.

I just want to stop being in limbo!

[Just_Me]

MM,

Did your wife say she wanted to work on your marriage? If not, then there is no point in confronting her, ever, about the profile. In her mind, the divorce is just a formality.

It may honestly be the case that I might be better without her.

That could certainly be the case. It isn't wrong to wonder what your wife actually brings to the table. Imagine you did get back together with her and life for her consists of continuing to focus on what she wants and disregarding your feelings. How long do you imagine that the marriage would last? Part of this process is coming to the realization that for now you are best served by making your life as complete as possible without her. If, by some stroke of fate, you find yourself faced with the possibility of reconciliation, you can be in the position to ask yourself again whether she enhances or actually detracts from your life.