All Hope is lost/Help - Part 2

[saffie]

Eve,

As you know my H never left but he DID want wooing. He felt that I had stopped loving him. I didn't chase him or pay him enough attention. I certainly didn't massage his ego enough. My H wanted to be 'wanted' by me.

It seems from all your posts etc that your H wants to be involved and keep communicating. As long as that is ok for you then I would keep doing that. Unless I am missing something here hasn't your husband tried to include you in things? He tried to get you on to the holiday at the last minute didn't he?

Assuming one another thinks certain things can lead to problems- don't assume things. Be as clear as you can be when you communicate. It strikes me that you are trying to read your H's mind and that leads to misunderstandings which then cause problems. I know that you are doing this with the very best of intentions but it does seem to create complications. Does this make sense?

[Evie]

Hi Saffie,

Yes it does make sense, thank you. My goal is to be as clear as possible when communicating and ask H to clarify.

I thought I didn't need to 'woo' as i was the more loving one out of the two of us. He didn't want to ML or be affectionate or want to spend any time with me. He knew I loved him or maybe he didn't. I don't know if he felt unloved, I don't know if he blames the lack of time together as partly my fault? I def didn't massage his ego, I was needy, clingy, sarcastic and very negative.

This is hard. How do I not assume things eg he said to me post bomb that he hated last New Years Eve because he knew I wanted it to be romantic and just the two of us and he couldnt and didnt want that. So I made my own plans this year, without consulting him about his plans. Should I have asked him whether he was coming to SIL for NY? I feared rejection, so I didn't. Why couldn't he have said he had being invited and wanted to come? Could it be that maybe he's just as of unsure about me as i am of him? Could it be in his mind of complicated thoughts he thinks he wasn't a priority in my life?

Before Christmas he made it clear that he didn't want to go out with me, although he is now happy to go out and spend time as a family, he did invite me out over christmas on a family meal, so these are huge baby steps.

I now have 4 goals:
a) Show more interest in H's life
b) No more Assuming - clear communication
c) Make good times happen (as a family to start with)
d) Focus on the good things in my life - family, friends

More later

X Eve

[cat03]

...without consulting him about his plans. Should I have asked him whether he was coming to SIL for NY? I feared rejection, so I didn't. Why couldn't he have said he had being invited and wanted to come?
=========
He's just being a big baby, come on!" a meal for one and going to bed at 9?" that is just a cry for attention. I think you did right, you should go about your business and make plans, he left, you really dont' have to consult with him--well, there are the kids, he could've just as well call if he wanted to spend time with them. He WAS invited and knew you were invited, it's a no brainer.

You are doing great, he's obviously slowly seeing his own weaknesses and not liking it one bit, he sounds very insecure.

[Evie]

ok update,

We went out for a family meal on Wednesday, conversation flowed easily.

But I cant seem to shake this despondent feeling that I have atm. H has had the boys since Wednesday and he has had a full agenda. I mean a completely full agenda, doing things and making an effort where he wouldn't normally, either because he has the time or more energy.

I have found out this morning that he is going to his brothers (remember NY's eve, when he had a pity party for one?) well he phoned his brother up late last night and is going up this pm!!!

Why couldn't he have come up with me and the boys last Monday?
He never wants to go there, so why today, last week he couldn't cope with family?

I know he's going b/c I spoke to my SIL and she told me... she's just as shocked.

I almost feel as if he's saying what you can do I can do better...Maybe i'm wrong, maybe he's just finding things to do to get out of his 'shoebox' house.

He just seems different and I don't know if this is good for me or not.

He re-starts back at yoga on Tuesday, instead of taking S1 to his activity, so this again is new.

It's almost like he's made a NY's resolution to be get om/move on with his life?

I asked him to help me with my ski's and luggage for my holiday next week, he said he would help on Wednesday, I asked him if he wanted to come and have some dinner, he said 'yes that would be great'.

On NY's eve, H sent me a txt (may have mentioned it above). WEll i replied last night to it.

I said I understood how my behaviour & the way we lived may have contributed too my taking us for granted and not prioritising us enough may have helped lead too driving the wedge between us. I said I appreciated how hard he worked and very proud of everything he had achieved to make us financially comfortable as a family.

His reply was 'I suppose its good to look back and understand how we have gone wrong - I have learnt alot'.

Who is DB who here?

I'm confused, any thoughts on what I should do next?

X Eve

[Jen_Jam]

Yes - focus on yourself, on what makes YOU happy.

You need your mental strength for interations with H, don't waste the time you have apart from him worrying about what he is thinking. While he is away enjoy yourself. I used to imagine that my H hadn't left me but was just staying over at a friend's house for the night, then I would enjoy myself - a nice bottle of wine, a Chinese takeaway and a chic flic and a bubble bath used to do the trick for me

Your H isn't himself right now, it's not normal behaviour but it's something he may just have to go through. Mine had to in order to appreciate what he had (ie me). my H did and said a lot of things that now he just plain wouldn't. Don't play with H's madness, let him sit in it a while.

[seekpeaceofmind]

I hope others will chime in here ... any LBS girls felt they had to romance their WAH?

My H won't let me romance him - hasn't wanted that for months. I do think that he felt that I wasn't nurturing enough - I didn't fuss over him when he would get injured or his blood pressure was high, etc. (He was the youngest in his family and his mother and sisters used to make a big deal of health related issues.) I guess all you can do read the signals of your particular situation. Maybe ask him - would he like you to reach out more or less than you are doing now? Would it be OK with him if you ask him out or over to the house or would he prefer to initiate? Doing active pursuit/romancing seems counter to the DB principles, but every situation has its own unique twists. . . .

[seekpeaceofmind]

I used to imagine that my H hadn't left me but was just staying over at a friend's house for the night, then I would enjoy myself

Jen - that is a great idea! I think I'll try it tonight as I sit around by myself on another Saturday night. I have a lot of trouble with the PMA thing, but I might be able to psych myself out one night at a time!

[saffie]

Eve,

Have sent you an email.

[seekpeaceofmind]

I hope others will chime in here ... any LBS girls felt they had to romance their WAH?

Doing active pursuit/romancing seems counter to the DB principles, but every situation has its own unique twists. . . .

I just read a few good posts on this in "Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans- Chapter 3":

1. We talk a lot about not pursuing here - mostly because pleading, begging, crying, whining makes us look pretty unnattractive and makes them want to run from us. However, I do think some small percentage of women leave because they think that will make their H's wake up and notice them. If you can pursue CONFIDENTLY, not weakly, that might be worth trying - experiment and monitor your results.

2. When you write a book for hundreds of thousands of people, you have to offer general advice that people can apply to their own situations. Since everyone is different, the methods need some modifying, depending on your circumstance. In general, backing off - not begging, pleading, or crying- is very important when one spouse is leaving. However, it gets somewhat tricky after that.

Since your husband felt unloved and unappreciated, if all you do is back off, he might just think, "See, she doesn't love me, I knew it." The trick for you is to allow him to initiate all contact right now, but if he is kind, complimentary, interested, you should certainly reciprocate in kind. You might even test the waters from time to time by asking him about himself, his life, and so on. See if he's responsive. IF you get a positive reaction, it's a clue that you can take more risks gradually.

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Dis,

Good discussion on this thread. Umm, first though, I NEVER said not to be sympathetic to your h. I Said stop pursuing and to have no expectations. Also I believe I told you to "Listen like a lover" when he calls, to hide ALL your anger from him, and to counter any negative images he has of the home life (any nagging, fighting, silent treatments, begging, etc) with positive images that are the opposite. Like being light hearted, having some laughter, affection with the kids at least, being playful, etc. Make the home a refuge but lighten up big time, b/c you ARE obsessing and that helps NO ONE, including the kids. This was advice I got from my DB coach and it is NOT easy.

As for wooing, that's an interesting question. Your h gave you the ILYBINILWY speech so I don't see exactly how that applies. BUT it might. I did fly up to see my h at one point early on, and told him that he was the love of my life and I didn't want things to end...but that I also had some dealbreakers/boundaries he had to respect and he did NOT do so immediately and that still hurts me. But yes, I did make a grand gesture and he responded. Much later when I felt that we were about done, I could tell in his voice he was starting to get frantic. He'd ask me every time we'd talk, when I was going to join him, if ever. He was alone in Alaska & I could tell he was wondering wth he had done. He was lonely and it showed. I surprised him for his birthday, and it felt fine b/c I was choosing to do it without feeling manipulated, etc. It was definitely a surprise and when he saw me, He cried. It was a "moment" and I think things began to turn when he saw that I really did/do love him a lot, and that he almost lost something more valuable than ANY job.

I hope I'm right. I cross my fingers and hope this is all true. At least I know I"ve done all I could do, including the strong "make it on my own and be happy if I have to" part, which was the scariest part in many ways.

From where I sit, your sitch is a bit different. I still think your h needs lots of space and I am SURE you need to stop analyzing. Please. Don't worry about every text you send and stop worrying about what he might think/say/feel. HE HIMSELF admits he's a lousy communicator. Don't enable him to stay that way. Take what he says at face value until he learns to speak up better or more clearly. That includes his silence. At most ask for one clarification and then treat him like the adult he needs to be.

Some of this is simply the consequence of his choosing to leave. I don't mean for you to gloat at all. But this is life. When a man leaves, it hurts....everyone he left, and sometimes him too. That IS LIFE --and that's why those choices should not be made without care, thought, and prayer. He needs time.

As I've said so many times here, you can blow things by rushing and pushing and obsessing. But I have NEVER seen someone (LBSer) "blow it' by taking things slowly and giving someone the space they need. No more obsessing. If he's testing you somehow, (like a 16 y/o....) then you need somehow to show how loving and affectionate you are as a PERSON/mom/sister/friend, etc and not pursue. IMHO.
(( j ))