That's the thing! Only they can come back. We can give them a safe place to come back to, but they are only going to do it in their own time. So what we get to try to do is to become the best person we can be, but it is for us, and not for them.
The last thing you want to do now is things that let her know you want her to come back. That will backfire almost every time. I've read way too many threads, and that is almost always what happens.
So, it could be that what I read is wrong, but if I see it in what you are writing, could she be seeing it in what you are doing? If she does, you need to try to stop it, I think.
And don't listen to friends who think you should be on a dating site. The are not trying to save your marriage, though they are trying to help you. I've been temped to go that way, but, as you discovered, we know it isn't the thing to do!
Am I trying to "get her to do something"? YES. I, like many people on this board, am trying to get her to stop this divorce. Only she can do that.
When you achieve that kind of power, you should bottle it and sell it to the rest of the WAS on these boards...you'll make a fortune. In the mean time, you are pursuing. She is very aware that you want her to come back to the marriage--you have told her explicitly. So she is in the driver's seat on that front.
Here comes the 2X4
The problem is that she is in the driver's seat everywhere else as well. She lives in the house, has access to every cent you earn, has the kids daily and gets to raise them as she sees fit--all at your expense but wthout your input. That my friend, is a position of power. Why would she make any changes whatsoever?
You haven't done anything about this situation because you are afraid that she will perceive that kind of action as "moving toward divorce." You're living your life in fear and letting your (cheating) wife dictate the terms. She has not dealt with a single consequence of her choices--you protected her from them. So far the only person suffering from her choices is you.
As for her not "dating" OM any more--believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.
The irony in this process is that you have to get to the point at which you are ready for divorce before you can work on the marriage. You have to resolve all of the regrets you have about the course of your marriage and make the positive changes required to do it right the next time. Then you are operating from a position of power. At that point, your W might look at you and say "wow I don't remember him that way." Then maybe you can move forward.
You thanked me for my input on your other thread. I hope you don't regret it now ;-)
NutFarmer, you're right. Why would she make changes?
The good news is I have been moving forward on the consequences part. My attorney is drafting a letter as we speak with a proposal for us to split my income. This will give me the opportunity to get a house for myself where I can spend quality time with my kids. It will also mean a real cut in lifestyle for her.
You're also right in that I protected her from the consequences. I'm a lover not a fighter. I really don't want this to be happening, so yes, I am avoiding it. But no longer. This will take longer than I like, but it is happening now.
Am I living in fear? I don't know if fear is the word. I don't want my kids to grow up as children of divorce. Is that fear? Doesn't feel like it to me. Aversion, maybe. Distaste?
But regardless, it is true that my wife is dictating the terms. That's the way it goes with MLC, isn't it? "Patience" has been my mantra. I guess maybe I can carry it too far.
I really believe she is not dating the guy anymore. I think maybe she would like to be dating him, but honestly he is 3 states away, and he hangs out in bars and dates women who are right in front of him. He has his pick of the litter. Why would he want to bother with a long-distance R with my W, mother of 4, who is unable to come out and play at a moment's notice, unable to get drunk any night of the week? So that R is not happening, romantically, I believe it. But she hasn't backed away from him - she is "still friends" with him, etc etc. I think she clings to him as an act of defiance to me. a power play, as you see.
I still thank you. Truly.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
I am happy to see that you are working on taking care of yourself and your kids. That is really the only thing you can do in this situation. Let her bear the consequences of her decisions.
Nobody wants his/her kids to grow up as the children of divorce. If you didn't care about that you wouldn't be here. The point I was trying to make is that she will get out if she really wants out, irrespective of what you do or don't do. Sacrificing yourself is not going to make her want you back. All it does is needlessly separate you from your kids and drain the resources available to you to take care of them.
I'm a believer in kids having both parents raise them. In your situation, it looks to me like they are being deprived of your influence, love and time because your wife has her head in the clouds. You may or may not be able to repair the marriage but you can be the best dad ever, no matter what she decides. I'm glad you are working toward that.
Patience does not necessarily mean sacrificing yourself and/or your time with your kids. It just means leaving the door open.
W gave me some documents covering "Domestic Abuse". While I am horrified that she thinks this about me, I am also open minded about it. I don't want to be that man to her or to the children.
Some of the documents are really disturbing. One is entitled "What you should know about your abusive partner". This seems like a foregone conclusion to me.
In it, there are a bunch of questions. One is "Should we try couples counseling?" The answer given is NO. "Can He change?" Not likely. Only if he participates in a 48-week program. "How do I know if he is changing?" The document lists a bunch of positive and negative signs.
Signs he is not changing (and my answers for me): - does he tell you that YOU are abusive? (No, I've never said that to my wife, though I did tell her that I felt she had abandoned me. This was met with anger and rejection.) - is he pressuring you to go to couples therapy? (Yes. Not currently, but in the past I have asked her to return to therapy.) - Does he make his abuse sound like less than it really was when he talks about it? (Well, yes. Because I don't believe it WAS abuse. But you see, if I deny it, then I am, by this definition, abusive. If I don't deny it, then I am also abusive. Umm....help me out here... How do I get off this merry go round? Where's the exit?) - Does he tell you that you owe him another chance? (Yes, I have done this, in the summer. Not in those words, but I asked her to give our marriage another chance. This is abuse?) - Does he try to get you or the children to feel sorry for him? (Not really.) - Do you have to keep after him to attend his meetings and appointments? (No, but I don't go to DV counseling (yet)). - Does he expect something in return from you for the fact that he's attending a batterer's intervention program? (No. I'm not in a program. But sheesh, now it is battery?) - Is he pressuring you to drop the restraining order? (There is no such order.)
My thoughts on this. It feels like a witchhunt. If I want to stay married, then I am abusive, by definition. If I want another chance, that is abuse. If I deny that there was abuse, or if I try to say, my behavior did not constitute abuse, then I am abusive.
I know I wasn't the man she wanted or needed me to be. Why else would she go to the other man? But I never had malice in my heart. I may have been unskilled and an oaf, inattentive, and even hurtful sometimes, but not abusive. I never wanted to dominate anyone or abuse anyone.
In particular, the aftermath of the affair I behaved terribly. I was very shaken and disturbed. an emotional wreck. Just a wreck. Traumatized. She is po'd and cannot or will not forgive me for my behavior. In her eyes, I am unforgivable. Or, maybe just irredeemable. She's said, "I forgive you, but that doesn't mean I want to be married to you."
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
I never called her names. Never called her a beee-atch. Never berated her, or criticized her to anyone else. I loved her and respected her as a mother. She says now that I limited or restricted her hobbies, but I don't recall ever doing that. I put an art studio in our home, refinished it myself, for her. I encouraged her to pursue art and made changes in my schedule to encourage it. I delighted in her art. She took art classes and bellydancing classes and I re-arranged my schedule to allow her to do it. She took cooking classes; I gave her the subscription. She went out with girlfriends, I never asked her not to. I stayed home with the kids to let her go out, never complained about the friends she had. I thought it was great that she had friends.
We paid to rescue her alcoholic mother a couple times from bankruptcy. Tens of thousands of dollars. I didn't hold it over her head. It was her MOTHER, what else would we do? Of course we would pay to help her out. Now she says I tried to restrict her relationship with her mom. I can't understand this.
I never restricted the finances. She had full control over the money. I told her now, you know, divorce means we don't get to live like we do. She says I threatened that I would stop "paying for her." It's just the FACTS, wife!
She tells me now that I never seemed happy. How can I argue with that kind of statement? I was happy! I was living the dream! A healthy family, 4 beautiful kids, a safe and comfortable home, a beautiful wife, friends and family around us.
I'll tell you, I behaved badly after the affair. I threw her out of the house on the first night. I read her diary (it was 5 entries over the course of 14 years, every one of them was negative, a report on how bad I was). I read her email (she was still emailing OM). I was very emotional, in front of the kids. But this was while she was still WITH THE MAN.
For all of that, I am the bad guy, the abuser, and she is the innocent victim? Ok, I behaved badly, but first, it was an AFFAIR, for peets sake. It was a terrible shock to me. And second, I didn't do this stuff before. I didn't read her email or diary before I found out about the affair. When she had a $700 phone bill I didn't suspect her. I trusted her completely. Utterly. I didn't check the credit card statements.
I get that my behavior traumatized her, but can we not just put down the weapons now? Why are we divorcing!?!?!?!?!? Why are we not reconciling instead!?!?!?
Can we just take one step towards each other and help each other heal? (NO! That is ABUSIVE!!!) Can we not just CALL OFF THE LAWYERS?
Sheesh!
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
You know you. Are/were you abusive? If the answer is no, let it go and prepare for an ugly ride.
Unfortunately alleging abuse is a common tactic in divorce strategies. She may have even convinced herself that it is true. It's that re-writing marital history in order to be able to view you in absolute negatives. It enables her to "justify" her actions. As the adult child of an alcoholic, she probably knows the language pretty well.
My advice to you is to do what it takes legally to preserve your parental rights and to get your finances worked out. Then stay away from her. Pick up/drop off the kids, and that's it. Don't call, don't email, don't talk unless it is about the kids' welfare. Give her time and space to work some of her own issues out.
I am reading Susan Page's book - How One of You can Bring the Two of You Together. I'm only starting.
In the beginning she suggests building empathy and goodwill toward the other person. There's homework "exercises" involving writing. Write your complaints and how you feel about the situation, then flip the complaint around and write from your spouse's perspective. Sometimes we can climb inside the other and see things even they do not recognize (like guilt or shame or regret etc).
I've found that to be helpful today.
One day at a time!
I'm going skiing with my boys today! yeehaw!
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
