haven't have time to post on my thread, lots happened, will just condensed it. 2 nights ago the floor gave under my feet as H asked for a D and told me he never stopped having feelings for ow and wanted to pursue an R with her and that we should separate. We had a talk, about her and her kind, about D and separating...I told him all i knew about A relationships, the guilt, the "I owe her" attitude and how a string-less responsibility free carefree R with her was just temporary. He left to his moms, I was still processing what happened and 1.5h later he calls and tells me that I was right, that as he drove away he realized it was guilt that was pushing to her, that he did have feelings for me and that an R with her would just be throwing his life away, that what I'd said about guilt was so accurate it was scary, that he felt responsible for her after all his lies.
He came home and admitted that every time he went/talk to her was because he felt bad, that he felt like a coward, not wanting to hurt anyone (i told her he was already hurting me) and wondered what the hell was wrong with him, why would he do such a thing. Apologized for what he said earlier and regretted not talking w/someone else first and just shooting his mouth off and acting on a whim. Last night I asked some quiet questions, he answered them, telling me that his feelings for her did diminish when it was over the first time (unlike what he said the day before, hence, I learned not to get hanged up on everything he says while stressed/having an emotional breakdown.)
Mentioned how ow had a mountain of problems and that eventually, if her ever had an R with her she would show her real self, once she'd get him in her grasp, she is really desperate and also in a pinch about her place which she bought and can't afford. He admitted to calling her last week for Christmas and felt bad he ruined the holidays for her and wanted to be "nice" by talking to her. I told him that he was just leading her on and making it hard for her to move on. He admits he wanted to please everyone and stop making people suffer, but that realizes that that is just not possible, that ow will have to move along and solve her own crisis. He said our problems were mostly communication wise and that he hoped/wanted to solve them.
I asked him what kind of hold ow had on him that he kept going back to her. He told me he rather talk to the C about that, that there was stuff that perhaps he rather not have me know so that it wouldnt' come up in the future while we worked on our R, to not think the worse but that he didn't feel comfortable talking about it. He did mention that she knew he cared for her still and that he knew his hang ups about childhood and his dad. Guess I'll have to leave it at that, it is prob for the best.
We are going to MC today, I feel he's gotten some sense again and realizes ow is just a quick fix. Still drives around a lot alone, tells me he is in big emotional pain and hurting. I pray his new T (he went yesterday) is better than the other one, but most of all that he stops hiding his real issues from the T and from himself.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
This reminds me so much of my H back in August....the day after getting back from holidays, he tells me he is going to leave, that he had been back with the ow for about 5 weeks. He said that he thought that he could make it work, and couldn't, so was going to leave. I talked to him and said that does he think it would be better with her, would his life be better, easier. Would she love and care for him like had? And left it at that. He to left to go for a walk, I thought for certain he was going to be with ow. But he came back, and wanted to know why I loved him, and why I wanted him to stay, and I just told him that I loved him, and he was my everything. He later admitted that it was the guilt, that drove him back to her, also I believe it was because I told him that he couldn't have women for friends, like he used to. He said that he just didn't feel like he deserved me, and the kids, and that he didn't want the kids growing up with his morales. But here we are today and it seems that we are through the worst, H is also back with his C, before I don't think he was ready to work this through, and do what he needed to. But now he seems to really be working on things. So if your H can work through the guilt issue's and come to terms with it, then he will be moving in the right direction. I can't remember, but is he on any AD? Because they will also help.
Take it easy, and look after yourself!
Me - 44 H - 44 M - 19yrs together - 23yrs D16 S8 EA/PA - Bomb Oct20/06 Jan 8/07 Feb 01/07 Jul 15/07 H still @ home Recovered!
((((Cat)))) This is Kel-- had to change my sig. This is the best news I've seen in your sitch in a long while.
They feel like they already messed up/failed at their marriage and when needy OW points out that they have a "NEW CHANCE" to start over with a "CLEAN SLATE" to live an "Authentic" life and find the "happiness they deserve"(etc,ad nauseaum), they start to get twisted up enough that WE are the OW because they are breaking the LATEST "promise" they made.
Sooo, I don't need to tell you this, but some of the questions you asked him kind of gave me a red flag. For the breakthrough point you have reached and what you can do with it for NOW> until she is "farther gone"-- ya know?
Just be careful. Off the top of my head, from the conversation you posted above:
<< He came home and admitted that every time he went/talk to her was because he felt bad, that he felt like a coward, not wanting to hurt anyone (i told her he was already hurting me) and wondered what the hell was wrong with him, why would he do such a thing>>>
Remember, although someday when you are 70 you can hit him with your cane, right now... He already knows he's hurt you. Don't remind him of his "failure" and make it seem like it's hopeless for him to fix it or forgive himself. Been there, sweetie.
Also, please don't ask things like, "What kind of hold does she have on you...". You don't want him thinking about that.
This is what I believe is happening: This is more about him than the skank. She is nothing. She is tissue that will be discarded at the end of the day and he IS being a [censored] to lead her to believe otherwise, but he thinks he's letting her down easy because it lets him look himself in the mirror and not be so ashamed. He has to do it though. He has to face himself (and it'd be nice if he'd admit it to you... but...) and associate his unhappiness with his poor choices, not his commitment to his marriage and family.
I found a letter that my H's xwhore mailed him after he'd moved into the place we are all staying now. The struggle I STILL have not to mail it back in pieces, countering every manipulative, [censored] up sentence, is just enormous... (just sayin') The point is, I could never have imagined the spin she could put on his decision to choose his family had I not seen it.
The truth is, she got much of that spin from his words. From the lies and inaccurate portrayal of our relationship(turns out he loves his wife) he told in the beginning to the nice way he tried to end it at first by saying he just had to try to work things out for his son.
Good luck at MC today. Keep your focus on your goals. It sounds like he is in the frame of mind to start facing and fixing himself.
Limbo, he isnt' on AD though he really REALLY should be, I hope his new T talks to him about it, even our MC told him that it will be hard to work on our issues with the D hovering over everything.
Kel, so, so nice to see you it's been a while. I have new perspective of things, although some details still make me think, the bulk of the matter is that he's woken up from the craziness and has had a mental awakening. ======= they start to get twisted up enough that WE are the OW because they are breaking the LATEST "promise" they made. ========== wow, what an amazing realization! you are very right!
Looking forward to go to MC, need to go with a frame of mind not to catch him in lies and inconsistencies (he said they only had lunch a few times, etc etc) but to come to an understanding, first, about being TRUTHful and about listening and voicing our opinions the constructive way.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
You wrote:: I have new perspective of things, although some details still make me think, the bulk of the matter is that he's woken up from the craziness and has had a mental awakening.:::
That's exactly what I felt when I read your post today. It's like suddenly they wake up and it's so hard to explain, but it's a soul-baring thing that you KNOW is different.
********************************************** you wrote::Looking forward to go to MC, need to go with a frame of mind not to catch him in lies and inconsistencies (he said they only had lunch a few times, etc etc) but to come to an understanding, first, about being TRUTHful and about listening and voicing our opinions the constructive way. :::
Great frame of mind. He's doing what he thinks he needs to do to keep you from giving up on him.
Even the lies/omissions.
Of course, he is probably wrong, but he doesn't know that yet.
Before signing on this morning I was making out grocery lists and todo lists. At least 4 times on my lists I wrote SUAL. I was doing a crossword puzzle last night. I wrote SUAL at the top of the page. I'd put it on the bathroom mirror and refrigerator if doing so wouldn't mean I'd have to explain myself to DS and DH.
As we reach *anniversaries* of *what were you doing LAST year at this time?* *How did you spend LAST NYE?* I've been insecure and questioning everything. I need to Shut Up And Listen. I need to SUAL before I make it too hard for him to tell me the truth. I need to really figure out how much I need to know. If it's worth bringing the memory back for him (wrecking the one we are in the process of making) to get the truth.
I wrote what I did this morning and am semi-t/jing with my story because I think we are both truth seekers. The lies hurt the most because we don't want to get burned again--- we want to know where we stand.
We equate truth with trust.
Thing is, I think we can trust a liar.
Sounds whacked, but trust is a decision and these are situational lies. They were so messed up that I don't think he's sure what is and is not a lie all the time. Yet. They feel cornered and don't have the tools to tell the truth. Yet.
That said, I do not ever expect him to lie to me again. At this point, I think he would if I made him feel he had to (to keep peace, keep me, keep his family, preserve any respect I may have left for him [his thoughts, not mine!]), so I'm trying not to ask anymore questions until I'm sure the truth is necessary for healing.
He knows what he has to do to keep you. He wants to do what it takes to keep you. I'm praying he finds the strength to make this an opportunity to create a better marriage than you've ever had.
We had another talk about lying at MC just now, the MC believes all cards have to be on the table and there shouldn't be any secrets between us if we want a chance to make things right. I only asked about the one thing I wanted to know, if the latest ow encounters were indeed just about friendship--H said it was a very close friendship (due to their past together) but that it wasn't physical. And that was that, I was satisfied with the answer. H was 30min late, so we didnt' have a full hr, instead I filled in the MC about what happened that day and we were able to have a more informed chat with H without him being there and him having to listen the story of the balcony jumping, which I'm sure it will take a while to dissapear from his memory.
Our MC is pretty good, not quite like the first one who was christian and gave us more encouragement about how we would make it, he was more like "you have a good shot at this R" sort of guy, but he does sound pro-marriage for the most part. H again surprised me and talked more than he ever did with the other C, perhaps because he indeed has had an eureka moment. MC told H that it wasn't his responsibility what could happen to ow anymore, that our M wouldnt' have a chance if he kept "rescuing" ow. H said that the more he thought about it, the more he believed he couldnt' live with ow and that a R with her would've been a disaster.
MC gave us homework, to write "what does it mean to you to be in a loving relationship?", I know it will be hard for H as he is still trying to look at himself in a positive light, but I'm excited to talk about it at MC next week.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
wanted to check in before i went to bed. what a rollercoaster we're on, friend. you keep getting the wind sucked out of you emotionally, but i am so proud to see your strength.
and your grace for your H. i think we all want to beat the sh!t out of everyone else's S's on this board, b/c we adore our friends here so much and they/we deserve to have someone crazyfied in love with them. BUT. there is always so much more to the 3D person of our S's than what we talk about here. you see him. all of him. and what he could be. and he is blessed beyond what he could ever see at this point, to have you on his side like that.
yeah, i'm rambling. off to bed. have a good weekend, friend.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
hey toots, wondering how you are holding up, wondering how our dear mamabear is doing, I know she posted then disappeared into the night.
As whole as I think I am, I dont' have the heart to post elsewhere but here with my battle buddies. I was part of a mom's group and a cop's praying wives group. I just dont' have the heart to post, read about other's normal lives, (most of them), their vents about extended family, little normal stuff. And here I am, with WWIII behind me, I just can't join them. I feel at ease here, with people who know what really goes on with me, I rather not unload anywhere else.
The C again told him last time how lucky he was, that other couples would've been D by now, that I truly went through a lot. I even got praise from Caesar (MIL, whom never really liked me and vice versa) telling H the same thing. Won't let it go to my head for, for I've realized that the times I have been more protected by God have been when I've recognized my weakness and hidden in Him, I swear BI, I literally felt a clear but thick covering on me shielding me from hurt, I specially felt it that night H asked for a D, I didn't even shed one tear.
H told the C that as he was breaking it off with me that night he started having feelings for me, he realized at some degree what he was going to loose. I'm actually surprised I didnt' sob nor carried on, I mostly kept my cool (ok, I was trembling from head to toe) but I never raised my voice nor went bananas. He'd asked if we could still be friends, I told him no, that I had to erase him from my life and that I'd cut all contact with him, not out of anger but out of sadness for loosing him. He was the one who ended up crying as we talked.
The gremlings are trying to bring up old stuff and make me do timelines, I shouldn't give a hoot, I must drive them away, those useless details only separate me from him and I have gone too far to let that crap get to me. He had his second IC yesterday, told me he did most of the talking. Going to our 3rd MC this friday.
I have been trying to talk him into going to Retrouville, because of his job he needs to ask off way in advance, that's his excuse, he doesn't want to be put on the spot and talk, I think that's why he doesnt' want to go. I will ask a 3rd time for info on their website (they did send me something 1yr ago, maybe that's why they don't now. Really wish we could go, if we miss this month the next is in 4mts.
Anyways, and life goes on...
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Life is some roller coaster eh Amy? thanks for stopping by hon glad to see you visiting this part of the DB forums--Ive been lurking on your thread now and then, hoping for the best toots)))))))))))
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
it's been a while. I have new perspective of things, although some details still make me think, the bulk of the matter is that he's woken up from the craziness and has had a mental awakening.