I don't honestly want to get out but I would accept his need to get out if he needs to. I just want the whole 360 degrees of R otherwise I can't stay here happily I can just stay.
Karen, You are an such a patient woman. Your H does not realize how fortunate he is that your detachment has not turned into indifference. I am hoping to read of more awakenings in 2008.
I have had to deal with my situation in a completely different fashion...basically, I had to hit my H over the head to get througb to him. And he has told me that if he ever gets out of line again, to find the nearest baseball bat! I had become shut down and mouse-like, when I needed to bring out my watered down tiger stuff. In your sitch, it sounds like a direct approach only causes your H to rebel, so he has to come around on his terms.
Well, as we have said many times here, there is no one size fits all for this kind of fusion. I admire your dedication to the process.
Yes - H has a lot of rebel in him and when directly approached he does this weird sort of dismay/shame/rebel thing that is characteristic of kids with major trauma backgrounds - makes me wonder what all I don't know about his background. H has a great deal of murky depth to plumb and it takes everything to keep the counselor in me in her own corner as counseling your loved ones is a BAD idea.
It is difficult not to become totally indifferent but working on detaching for the last several months has been a good learning experience for me. I have learned that I will not, in fact, expire from lack of constant unyielding effort. I come from a long line of "keep trying" people. Sometimes those of us who are tryers end up "being trying" instead. There is a recent study that shows that people who "give up" on things that are not their forte are actually more successful in the long run - won't go into the scientific aspects of it but it was a real departure from a lot of thoughts on the subject and I'm not entirely convinced of it but I would love to see some more on this topic. I also learned that sometimes stepping back exposes a great deal more than continuing to stand there pointing your finger at the mess and saying, "Look this is a mess."
I am in the process of deciding my next steps and they aren't perfect. I am deciding how to re-engage in my M and what form that will take. It probably has to start with an honest but short dialog. I need to cop to my participation in our nearly one year drought.
I am feeling like I need to say something like, "H I love you and we have a problem. We have not had sex in almost a year. About six or eight months ago I made a decision not to pursue you for sex that you don't want to have and see what would happen. What has happened is that you and I have widened our distance even more. I have told you before that I would like to have sex with you no less than once a week, preferably 3 times. You have repeatedly indicated that if I backed off you would step up to the plate and initiate when you were interested. That hasn't happened. I suspect that there are deeper issues like an emotional or physical or computer affair, pornography addiction, anxiety, emotional sexual issues, depression or something like that. It isn't my place to diagnose, only to partner with you in solving our problem. I need you to get honest about it. I will email you the name of two certified sex therapists in our area whom I hope you will consider seeing. I have a bookcase full of material on sex and marriage that I hope you will consider reading and maybe even discussing with me.
While you are pursuing whatever answers are relevant to you I will stay out of it unless invited and make myself more available to you. I will make myself available to you for sex and affection on a daily basis but I won't participate in half hearted attempts. I will take responsibility for initiating sexual activity of some sort once/week sometime between Friday and Sunday. You have the right to refuse. I have no intention of leaving this marriage but there is a window of opportunity on my wholehearted effort that will eventually close if I find I am the only one trying. If you allow it to close I cannot say what kind of marriage we will have. I don't want to talk this to death and you don't need to say anything but I am willing to answer any questions you have if you are confused about anything. I will know if you have taken in what I have said by what actions you take starting immediately after this conversation. Lack of touch, disinterest and other inaction will be taken as an action.
Well, what do I know, but I think you are still not being brutally honest with him. It sounds way too nice and counselor-ish. How about just telling him you feel unloved and unsexy and lonely and what does he think is going to happen to the two of you on this road. Can you live with that answer?
Done that. He just got mad and said, "Oh, so you are saying we are headed for divorce? You don't think I love you?" Nothing change except he entered another shame/denial/hiding phase.
What I hope is different about what I am trying to say is that I want to own my inaction and tell him the reason for it, I want to tell him what I will do going forward and that there is a time limit on my efforts - I don't know how long. I also want to tell him that if there is a problem it is not necessarily a deal breaker. I wonder sometimes if there is something going on that he suspects is a deal breaker so he just keeps hiding.
hmmmm....this is a tough one Karen. Your H seems like the type who can stay in hiding for a long time, like my H did. We had just gone about two months without sex until this week because of the whole "platonic" conversation. He told me just a few days ago that he was just going to live like that until I pushed him again. He had no intentions of initiating at all in the near future. He was able to hide away his sex drive (which I know dammm well he has now) and just cruise. It's all BS. Your H has a sex drive. Why he won't share it with you right now is the question. Maybe the sex therapist is a good way to go now. But he has to be willing to open up and I just don't know if that is something you can force if he knows you are willing to live like you presently are. I told my H a few months ago I was staying for the kids and the F-ed up thing is he thought that was a good answer. Then the soldier guy stuff happened and I think he said wtf, maybe she is staying but certainly not happily and that is always going to be a recipe for disaster. ((((Karen)))))) I think you need to find your happiness. Don't settle. You'll regret it.
Unfortunately your H and mine do sound similar. What did your H do with his sex drive in the meantime??? I have difficulty believing that anyone can submerge their sex drive to the extent that your H, mine, Lillies and HP's seem to have. Most guys on this thread that have suffered from "apparent LD wind up having something going on somewhere else. That is why I never quite write off that possibility.
Unfortunately your H and mine do sound similar. What did your H do with his sex drive in the meantime???
I truly don't know Karen. I don't think he was doing anything like having an A or porn or anything. I've found no evidence of any of that. I think some guys are just really good at stuffing their feelings. Whether sexual or not. But the feelings are still in there. They just sublimate them into some more acceptable form or something. I dunno...
Sounds good to me. Your H sounds so business like in so many of his interactions with you (i.e. "I'm going to go to the bathroom, brush my teeth and then make love to you") that I think this approach is as good as any plus like you said it's good that you're owning your actions.
Actually I find your H more baffling than LFL's H and they don't seem all that similar to me. Going 2 months without ML is NOT the same as a year and especially given the fact that LFL's H has been able to initiate sex all along even when it's not exactly how she would like it (until now :)) While your H seems much more inhibited and avoiding with sex. I can't imagine you being able to have a similar open conversation with your H about sex as LFL and her H did last night.
Regardless I hope you are able to communicate enough with your H for him to realize this is a real issue for you.
Good Luck!!!!!!!!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Karen1 There is a recent study that shows that people who "give up" on things that are not their forte are actually more successful in the long run ... That is roughly what John Maxwell advocates.
