You hit the nail on the head, my man. It has been a catharsis for me as well, although I'll draw the line at Latin dance.!You're so right about improving youself. The key for me has been the multiple friends I've mde here, and some confidence in ME again.
It's like the line from "Born in the USA": "End up like a dog that's been kicked too much, so you spend half your life just coverin'up"
I'm coming in kinda late but thought I could add some perspective from a woman....
first off ya'll're seeming kinda bitter. Understandable to a point but all women aren't the devil
That being said....I wanted to comment about the mind reading.
I remember saying things to my ex about the woman he was talking a lot to, or women.........about how it bothered me. I remember asking him to stay home sometimes instead of going out. I remember telling him I would be waiting up if he came home early.
I got tired of asking, begging, pleading and gave up.....
So you say you can't be a mind reader, (which I heard from him too) but there were plenty of signs and things he could have done and it wasn't mind reading. It was all out in the open.
And ya know - I took the time to learn about him - what he'd like, etc. and made that effort. I didn't need to be told that he liked twizzlers....I knew that about him. KWIM?
Not trying to be a bitter brat but......wanted to give you a different perspective.
....Understand, that I can't, not be what I am I'm not the milk, and Cheerios in your spoon ~ Avril Lavigne ~ ..."Nobody's Fool"...
Thanks for your thoughts KS. I think the key to what you wrote is that you TOLD your H what you wanted by "asking, begging, pleading" whereas my W didn't feel she should ever have to ask, I should just know! As I said, sometimes I would know and try but sometimes I wouldn't and it would be up to her to say "Hey, honey, I need a hug tonight". She felt it was demeaning and embarrassing to have to ask for what you need, she wanted to be an infant whose every need is just breastfed to her. That is not an adult approach to a R, it is a two way street. One must give as well as recieve, my W was not interested in giving but continued to demand everything in return. She even said herself "Here I expect all these things but I never do any of them for you". Now, that is not bitterness on my part (although when FLTC and I get started I know how it comes across!), it is fact. When she told me she needed more romance from me, I thought to myself "Wow, I have a beautiful W who I love dearly, why am I not showing her in this way?" So, I started doing things to show my love in a more romantic fashion. I even made heart shaped sandwiches for her lunch and wrote "I love you" on her lunch banana! That is going the extra mile, I'd say Her response was "stop doing these things, you only do it because you know I like it!" Now, if I truly am bitter, as you suggest, then I must definately let that go, I must forgive, as much for myself as for her. I did absorb many years of being demeaned and put down and that certainly puts a damper on self esteem and feelings of desirability. My friends often said things like "I can't imagine how you have any self esteem left!" I have to fight my way back but NOT in a mean, vindictive or hurtful way. I must forgive her and carry on, heal my wounds and create a way of life that will be loving towards myself and everyone else I come in contact with, including my W. It's a long trip but it's the only one in town! Thanks again for dropping by. Btw, did your H like the red or black Twizzlers? I like black. AT, this Twizzler topic could be right up your aisle, don't you think?
...and just for the record, did my W ever attempt to add a little romance to our R herself? Not a chance! In her words, "it's the man's job to pursue the woman" Yup, once again it was all my job! She just complained, sat back, waited, judged and criticized my efforts! Funny, when I tell other women all the various things I did to create some romance their eyes get soft, and they sigh as though they wish someone would do those things for them. Coffee Buddy actually had tears in her eyes when I told her about the heart shaped sandwiches! My W was just determined that we were done and nothing I did could ever make a difference, yet I did keep trying....and, yes, I did sit and listen to W's problems hour upon hour but, apparently, I don't know how to listen either yet she could go on for two to three hours at a time! I'd excuse myself for a minute to use the washroom and she'd say "see, you don't really want to listen to me" Holy sh!t, when you gotta go you gotta go!!! OK, this rant is over!
She never shared the Twizzlers, eh ?.. We alternate between the red and black ones... and when there is only one of each left we just tie them together in the middle... jsyk..
I just thought I'd share a couple of quotes this evening. Sorry Tom, I couldn't find any that included deep and penetrating thoughts on Twizzlers but maybe another night.
"Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out" John Wooden
whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy- meditate on these things.
"Where you have been, what you have done, and where you are now matters far less than where you are headed. If you persist in identifying with current or prior performance by constantly thinking and talking about it, then where you have been, where you are, and where you are going will all be one in the same"
Tommy Newberry from The 4:8 Principle: The Secret To A Joy-filled Life.
I would say that I'm more frustrated than bitter. I, like you immediately went to work on fixing all the things that I learned were wrong during counseling, once she addressed them. You can't hit the target if you don't have "positive identification", She wanted fun times..Broadway shows, restaurants. The Mac’s words: "Do acts of kindness and good things will follow $185, please". I threw them all in there. All the stuff you sometimes forget about working two jobs and raising three kids. She was upset that I used to make her leave her job to get our kids when they were sick, and I wouldn't leave mine. Guilty as charged. The past two years, any time one of our kids was sick, I stayed home or left work. 100% of the time. To the point where my supervisor started giving me a hard time. I told her I had a lot to make up for and set out to do just that. Absolutely no response or recognition of change, just more nitpicking and anger. If you can follow my thread back a year, look at the petty bulll&it she threw out there. Maybe women (and MEN TOO!) DO harp on small stuff when they're unhappy with the relationship....or maybe they just HARP ON SMALL STUFF BECAUSE THAT'S WHO THEY ARE!!!!
I agree with wii, because I think we traveled similar paths. If you're not getting what you need, speak up. It's ridiculous to think we can read minds. Not that any of us were cruel to our wives from the start. KS made a point about telling her husband to not go out and stay out or talk to other women. That kind of way-over-the line stuff was never an issue. Sure, I would have heard that loud and clear. Got it. That's very tangible stuff, but the “you’re not a bad guy, you’re just not meeting my emotional needs" is a tougher issue to tackle. What are they? Should I experiment until I maybe find them....OR CAN YOU JUST TELL ME!
No, KS women are not the problem; it's just the frustrating behavior of the ONE'S WE'RE DEALING WITH that make this frustrating. OK...I'm done. I'm cynical by nature anyway.
How's the detaching going? And FLTC, umm...where's that New Year's budget for 2008? You know, the one where you don't have to eat out of a can of beans over a hotplate? Come on, WII, tell FLTC how nice it is to have a good mancave.
NH, are you being funny? "How's the detaching going"! Actually, I think I'm doing surprisingly well, after Xmas and New Years and all this family stuff I'm still relatively sane. W has given me no reason to think anything has changed, she still speaks to me like I'm a collection agent calling to harass her about bills, just little Miss Personality Plus! No worries about her giving a damn. So, now I'm trying to get myself physically back on an even keel, my friggin body is a mess! Last night I went to the Chiropractor and afterwards had a big evening getting a haircut, (it looks good, the shorter it is the less grey shows , well worth the $15)and went shopping for a BD present for D13, then back to the mancave. So, yes NH, mancave is good! No W is even better.
Her response was "stop doing these things, you only do it because you know I like it!" Now, if I truly am bitter, as you suggest, then I must definately let that go, I must forgive, as much for myself as for her. I did absorb many years of being demeaned and put down and that certainly puts a damper on self esteem and feelings of desirability. My friends often said things like "I can't imagine how you have any self esteem left!" I have to fight my way back but NOT in a mean, vindictive or hurtful way. I must forgive her and carry on, heal my wounds and create a way of life that will be loving towards myself and everyone else I come in contact with, including my W. It's a long trip but it's the only one in town! Thanks again for dropping by. 