Corri, this is a big part of a LD's motivation or lack there of.
It's part of the HD equation, too, Lou.... you are doing the exact same thing BB is doing. It's always easier to see it in others... can you see it in yourself? If so... ???
It is interesting that you mention GP growling at you. H and I had an encounter like that once. So, is GP growling an example of the "real" him and H growling an example of him role playing something he isn't? Or is GP just more comfortable with who he actually is? Or is the R dynamic that you and GP have versus what H and I have a freer one in which GP can "be himself" whereas if he were with me he might squelch himself as H has?
NOP once posted something like that he was cool with a woman vibing submissive or dominant because he thought that as the man he should be able to carry any opposing role adequately. Part of what BF was trying to communicate by saying that LFL and you should "woman up" was that a sexually mature woman should be able to take on the same responsibility. However, I don't quite get how this fits in with the whole Deida- man should take the lead- philosophy. Anyways, I would say the difference between GP and your H is that GP was sexually experienced enough to "know the score" and motivated enough to sing it for me. Really, a guy acting out a fantasy to turn a woman on is no different than a guy taking action to bring a woman to orgasm. In most cases it's pleasurable to cause another person pleasure/arousal/orgasm. I don't think that LFL's H's recent behavior is reflective of some release of previously repressed fantasy. I think it's a simple matter of LFL's monkey behavior finally motivating him to do something she would like. IOW, he knew the basic score because she's told him a million times but he was reluctant to sing it for some reason, perhaps just performance-anxiety, but her recent behavior pushed him into a do-or-die situation and is often the case with such things, his fear was unwarranted and he actually enjoyed himself once the amusement park ride started going.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I have no issue with holding up my part, initiating, nor with vibing different things, different times. That was how I approached our R earlier on & then got confused with the lack of reciprocity.
In the last 10 plus months I have come to the realization that H is the guy in the bar who doesn't signal an interest. It would behoove me now as it did when I was young to pass that guy by and move on. H is like pulling up a bar stool & making an effort to meet that guy, see why he isn't interested then trying to get past the reason and get him motivated. Maybe the guy just wants a drink, maybe he has a girlfiend, maybe I'm not his type. What I've done is sit down next to the guy and find out that his favorite color is red and that he's not that attracted to me in general, then showed him my red lace bra just to get his attention. Maybe he'll take me home but the general interest isn't there. I've been more "womaned up" in the past 6 months than in a long time. I have no idea where it will lead and that is ok.
Sexual experience probably does play a role. GP and NOP are both men of the world and I'm sure it helps.
In the last 10 plus months I have come to the realization that H is the guy in the bar who doesn't signal an interest. It would behoove me now as it did when I was young to pass that guy by and move on.
What has happened over and over again on this BB is that when the HD partner can dispassionately see the LD partner as that "guy in the bar showing no interest" then the HD partner is able to clearly signal "moving on" at which point everything changes. However, in order for things to improve at that point both partners have to make an equal, honest commitment towards being both sexual and sexy or you can end up with a situation like mine where I was literally disgusted with my 2bx once he finally vibed sexual.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I am still willing to make that committment (but barely). However, I will not do so in a vacuum. I haven't mentioned on this bulletin board but I have taken to spending more hours/night sleeping in the baby's room than my own. It is not "on purpose" but I feel that it does not matter where I sleep do why make a big "to do" over it. How is my H to find me if he decides he wants some nookie? Well, he could try coming to bed when I do instead of staying up watching adolescent tv with DS16.
There's a lot in common between what you're talking about and the concept of Other: Open to Desire and the concept of Other.
Yes, there is. Thanks for that link... I'll read through that one again.
I think power dynamics play a key role in the concept of Other and Desire, though, and how being in a One Up or One Down position can keep you from seeing yourself, or your partner, as separate. I don't think we engage in power struggles on purpose... it may just start out as something as innocent as a counter-balance measure for the R... but then all the sudden... boom... I have a role to fill and so do you.
I guess that is why my shrink always hounded on me about giving up my notion of right or wrong, and redirecting my energies to solving the problem. I look at that sentence I just wrote and kinda smile because it sounds so darn simple and easy. Ha Ha.
What has happened over and over again on this BB is that when the HD partner can dispassionately see the LD partner as that "guy in the bar showing no interest" then the HD partner is able to clearly signal "moving on" at which point everything changes.
I don't think that is exactly true. I wasn't the HD in my R. I think what it takes is one person who is willing to break the habitual cycle... the same repetitive patterns of bad R behavior that set up a power imbalance.
When either person says... 'hello, not doing this any more,' change occurs. But you have to, in fact, actually STOP doing the behaviors.
As Hairdog says, hit the Reset Button.
You may feel 'dispassionate,' but quite honestly, that is probably a healthy thing... for you are no longer feeling desperate for a 'fix' from the supplier. You can learn to be with the person again. Or not. Either way, you are free of the struggle, and free to once again be yourself.
The 'Addiction' is broken. But in overcoming addictive behavior, one must put in place new behaviors so as to increase chances of not relapsing. Hopefully, that is what LFL and Mr. LFL will do.
I can already see it in Hairdog... and I gotta tell you, him NOT initiating sex the minute his moratorium was up... impressed the he!! out of me. I've never wanted someone to succeed so much in all my life.
Actually, your post makes a ton of sense to me. What I am having a little trouble with is that in defining myself and what I want, I am finding it hard to also focus on appreciating MrsGGB for who she is rather than getting stuck on who she is not. I can plainly see that this is the quagmire that Cemar gets stuck in. I can also see that this self discovery ideally should happen before you get into a LTR rather than 20+ years into it, but that is another road. Anyway, I'm wondering if that tendency to get stuck, might simply be a symptom of not really recognizing myself fully, as it seems to be a little easier to pull out of those potholes after reflecting on myself than it did before. What do you think?
I've never wanted someone to succeed so much in all my life.