Some days HERSHEY'S REESE'S Peanut Butter Cups are faster to eat. No licking, just bite into all you can handle. Yum, yum, slurp, slurp, ride’m-cowboy!
Lou
PS it is tomorrow already. I went to bed, slept for an hour and a half. Too bad the nookie wagon didn't show up or I would be sleeping. I hear the wagon was too what ever, again.
I think you may be talking about some kind of existential angst. It definitely will get in the way of sexuality. To give a rather absurd example, I would bring up the time my 2bx sexually rejected me because "I should have known that he wasn't in the mood because he just watched a program about the Holocaust." I was being insensitive to the "real" him in the moment and just trying to project whatever in-the-moment-horny-mindset I was in on to him. It might even have been the case that I had just listened to some sent-from-the-devil hip-hop music and was projecting that kind of fantasy on to his poor tortured highly sensitive soul. Bad, bad Mojo.
As human beings we crave intimacy and we crave sexuality. Sometimes we try to create one through the other or vice versa but it doesn't always work. Quite frequently, it isn't necessary (and rarely possible) to know the "real" person you are with in order to have great sex. Sometimes you can just touch palms, smile and signal "Human" and celebrate what you have in common rather than what makes you unique.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think you may be talking about some kind of existential angst.
That is most definitely a possibility.
Quote:
Quite frequently, it isn't necessary (and rarely possible) to know the "real" person you are with in order to have great sex. Sometimes you can just touch palms, smile and signal "Human" and celebrate what you have in common rather than what makes you unique.
Mo: Of course this can happen. My comments are directly related to when there are problems.
Lil: I know I am being confusing... I'm not trying to be... swear. I'm actually trying to figure out the clearest way to get to my point... and I'm not doing too good a job.
Burg: I'm sorry, I misread the meaning of your question... how is reality different than differentiation and perspective control...
I'm not sure there is a difference at all... but I think there is noticeable difference in how it feels when this notion is strictly applied to sex... (given two people who are or who have been, experiencing SSM.)
Even the ICs come in and out of whatever it is I think I might be talking about here... their PBS encounter... their encounter when she came home and just wanted to fck him in the dark, and it ended up being something different than she intended... precisely because it IS so real and honest?
Do you see what I'm getting at? Or am I still being completely confusing... ???
I guess another point I would make is that making somebody else responsible for fulfilling a role in your fantasy is much like making somebody else responsible for your orgasm. For instance, it was great that GP actually growled at me but I was free to see him or not see him as "the panther" no matter what he did. OTOH, I would say that given free market sexual economics, a man's willingness to fill an appropriate role in my post-feminist neo-primitive/romantic sexual fantasy realm is exactly equal to the P.O.P. he has to pay. The P.O.P. I have to pay is that I have to fulfill the role I created for myself adequately. In some sense this could be regarded as P.O.C. but sexual economics being what they are the notion of P.O.C. can/should largely be disregarded.
I'll pick on Lou again because I know he can take it. He tries to be protective Uncle Lou with me and caution me that men might "just" be using "lines" on me. What he doesn't understand is that the content of those "lines" is part of my P.O.P. In the article I posted, the columnist talked about the African-American artist who came over and kissed her knees at the bar. For a whole lot of women this gesture would go a long way towards paying P.O.P. because it allows the woman to easily inhabit a sexual fantasy realm in which she is someone who "feels beautiful".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
It is interesting that you mention GP growling at you. H and I had an encounter like that once. So, is GP growling an example of the "real" him and H growling an example of him role playing something he isn't? Or is GP just more comfortable with who he actually is? Or is the R dynamic that you and GP have versus what H and I have a freer one in which GP can "be himself" whereas if he were with me he might squelch himself as H has? I think very few people know the "real" person that their H is. I also think that who we want to be or what part of ourselves we want at the forefront changes over time. I fooled myself in the beginning of this R by seizing on a couple of examples of H's behavior that fit the mold I was looking to squeeze him into and ignoring the vat of examples of who he was.
I guess another point I would make is that making somebody else responsible for fulfilling a role in your fantasy is much like making somebody else responsible for your orgasm.
YES!! It is like a covert contract, sure... I guess I'm talking about the one step prior... how the covert contract is actually made...
I think that the very problem, many times, is that we are in the midst of our own fantasy, and we HAVE made the OP responsible for fulfilling the roles we've assigned them. But we haven't asked/told the other person that, and even further, we have not given them an opportunity to opt in or opt out. We don't even KNOW we're doing it. We just get pissed when they don't play the game right... because in MY fantasy, I'm supposed to get everything that I want, exactly as I want it... it's my fantasy, afterall, and it isn't hard AT ALL for you to do what **I** want.
That leaves absolutely no room whatsoever for reality... no room whatsoever for honesty.
As soon as LFL gave up her fantasy of how Mr. LFL should/shouldn't be... she could actually see him as his own person. She could see that there are things that potentially turn him on beyond the script she had written for him... things she may have never considered simply because she was too consumed with her own version of things (no offense LFL, BTDT, bought the t-shirt).
Quote:
For instance, it was great that GP actually growled at me but I was free to see him or not see him as "the panther" no matter what he did.
Exactly. It's easy to see when you are dating, because if you don't like how the other person is/isn't, you just move on. When married, the other person becomes the sole 'supplier,' and the more consumed we become about not getting what we want... the deeper into the fantasy we get... the further away from honesty/reality we get... the more desperate we get... and all of a sudden... boom... covert contracts.
I agree with much of what you are saying here. However, the fact remains that when you do differentiate enough to achieve a clear-eyed vision of your partner's sexuality and greater self-awareness of your own it is entirely possible that you will find yourselves to be largely sexually incompatible and have to question whether some sort of workable compromise or GGG trade-off is acceptable given the other benefits of the relationship. The sexual role my 2bx wanted me to play made me feel old, ugly, cold and mean so I resisted it although I did make, I think, a rather strong effort to be game. OTOH, I did a rather p*ss-poor job of signaling the role I did want to inhabit, largely due to denial of the bunny aspects of my personality. That denial is what made me such a cry-baby.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Mojo I'll pick on Lou again because I know he can take it. He tries to be protective Uncle Lou with me and caution me that men might "just" be using "lines" on me.
Mo, mostly right and I know you want the sex and want to play the P.O.P game, so some of my thinking is protecting your bunny and also saying watch it when you run with scissors, there is a slight chance of slipping and falling. If you fall, most of the times I know you will get up and maybe have a few scratches.
About black or what ever race, I don’t want to see anyone oppressed. I was just sharing some of the things I heard while in the Army, but that was a long time ago and the guys were players and out for what they could get away with.
NG and GP sound like they took responsibility. I think GP is past the player stage but one never knows.
People on the forum have various states of ideas about exclusiveness, LTR’s, and risks/rewards.
You know me by now. Low risk kind of guy but with that sometimes comes lower rewards.
Being some what HD but risk aversive has its price.
Corri because in MY fantasy, I'm supposed to get everything that I want, exactly as I want it... it's my fantasy, after all, and it isn't hard AT ALL for you to do what **I** want.
Corri, this is a big part of a LD's motivation or lack there of.
I think BB wants what she wants and anything outside that box she might do, but it has a price or causes her to think/act Lou, you are on your own.
Hairdog said Ms HD had a picture about women being chattel. BB's big thing is a little different. She is saying women do things to please men/H but don't do enough to please them self.
Then there is “things should be easy” and pets are less work, more predictable, you can say no, or do what you/she wants w/o anyone wanting something different. IE do what makes you/her happy
