I've posted to this board in the past few months and received a lot of advice. Now that I've become a little less emotional and gained some thinking space, I've realized my wife is in the midst of a major MLC.
Brief sitch: married 23 years. We're both 50. Kids all grown and out of the house as of 2 years ago. Our relationship started the meltdown when the last kid left. W started spending money ridiculously. Bought a fur coat. Spent $8k on getting teeth fixed (Veneers...her teeth were perfect). Spent $2k on electrolysis (yes, down there). Insisted on a new car with heated leather seats.
Then, she started an emotional affair with husband of another couple who are our best friends. They're extremely rich. He sends her expensive gifts, takes her on fabulous trips. She talks to him every day.
She tells me I'm insecure, depressed. She's rewritten our marriage history to show me as a complete jerk. Our physical relationship has dropped off the planet. No sex, no touching, nothing.
After doing EVERYTHING wrong (begging, pleading, arguing, bargaining), I'm now listening to the advice posted here. I've backed off. I have not told her I love her. No pursuit. This has at least made things at home tolerable.
She initiated MC. We start next week. I'm afraid it will make things worse. Any advice?
I've started a little personal savings account. It makes me feel better that I have a little safety net. Is this OK? A good or bad idea?
I'm in a lot of pain. I've tried to focus on myself, but it's hard. I can't watch movies/tv anymore because I see a couple loving each other and I just feel sick inside. That was us...
Me: 51 W: 50 M 24 yrs EA: since Apr 06 S22, S26, S28 ILYBNILWY:Nov 07
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." Tyler Durden
...also, I'm just starting to dive into some of the older posts on the board. Just read "Midlife for Dummies" and laughed my butt off...then felt horrible because this is her...
Me: 51 W: 50 M 24 yrs EA: since Apr 06 S22, S26, S28 ILYBNILWY:Nov 07
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." Tyler Durden
Ok sir, you asked for advice. I can only guarantee it will be worth the price (free).
Sounds like MLC. Several indicators are there:
Children leaving home in past 2 yrs (major life changeing event with aging implications) Fancy car Cosmetic surgery, dental work Age (50) Spending (excessive) Affair (albeit emotional) By the way, what's up with the expensive gifts?
Your fear of MC may not be unfounded. Some initiate MC simply to prove to spouse that they should seperate/divorce. It can be like a confirmation from a third party, professional at that, "proving" that what they already are determined to do is the "right" thing to do. It also strengthens their argument. because if you continue to disagre they can cite what the counselor advised/agreed. Sort of a pre-emptive strike. Do you have any input on the choice of the counselor? Can YOU choose one that is pro-marriage, objective oriented before she chooses one that is not?
Don't feel bad about begining to protect yourself by starting a personal savings account, but try not to let her find out. If she has decided to go she will look for excuses and try to blame her leaving on you.
Continue to try to deal with this with your head rather than your heart. Ironically I also advise you to listen to your gut. As Robert Deniro's character said in the movie Ronin, "If there is a doubt, there is no doubt".
Last edited by sleeper; 01/01/0801:40 AM.
"The answers are within you" (can't remember who). Unfortunately, so is the bullshit.
Our relationship started the meltdown when the last kid left. W started spending money ridiculously. Bought a fur coat. Spent $8k on getting teeth fixed (Veneers...her teeth were perfect). Spent $2k on electrolysis (yes, down there). Insisted on a new car with heated leather seats.
Then, she started an emotional affair with husband of another couple who are our best friends. They're extremely rich. He sends her expensive gifts, takes her on fabulous trips. She talks to him every day.
She tells me I'm insecure, depressed. She's rewritten our marriage history to show me as a complete jerk. Our physical relationship has dropped off the planet. No sex, no touching, nothing.
She initiated MC. We start next week. I'm afraid it will make things worse. Any advice?
I've started a little personal savings account. It makes me feel better that I have a little safety net. Is this OK? A good or bad idea?
I'm in a lot of pain. I've tried to focus on myself, but it's hard. I can't watch movies/tv anymore because I see a couple loving each other and I just feel sick inside. That was us...
Damn bombadier, I'm sorry to hear of the mess that you are in.
sleeper is absolutely correct. Had you not posted the symptoms, maybe MC would have been healthy to pursue but given the enormous depth of the symptoms, I'd say it's to seek out professional validation.
Speaking of the symptoms, they look like they are extreme and look closer to that of a man than they do of a woman.
The electrolysis is a biggie given that intimacy with you is a no go zone.
My advice to you to run for the hills. Do not entertain hope. Do not read up on success threads. DB in as much as it focuses on you. You're 50. You've got much good living to do and you'll only waste that time if you pine away for your WAW.
Your diagnosis of MLC is perfect. It is my observation of sitches on this board that the older the woman is, the longer it takes if they are ever to wake up to themselves. At 50, the odds of a never recovery are very high and given the depth of the the MLC, it's now time for you to do things that you've always wanted to do.
Grab as much as your hard earned wealth that you can. Your 401k is going to get cut in half no matter what but anything outside of property, seize it.
What you need now is an exit plan.
For the basis of your plan, I would say take the MC option and agree with your WAW's wishes. Try to amicably extract yourself from joint financial assets as you can. You don't want lawyers involved in much more than drafting up the papers otherwise it'll take it's toll on your health and that's not what you need right now. Top health is your top priority.
See if you can get her to dispose of property asap and without lawyers. Achieve this and you'll be 80% of the way there.
Sorry if my advice is too direct and not what you're wanting to hear but we need to be realistic. The odds of a turn around in your sitch are extremely poor.
Sleeper, Scooter, thanks for the needed advice. Reading some of the other experiences on this board, it seems like MLC is an almost complete death blow to the marriage. Nope, haven't read the success stories.
Right now, my strategy is to buy as much time as possible to build up some savings, plan, prepare myself (although from what I've read, there's just no way to prepare for something this devastating). In other words, if she wants a D, she'll have to make the first step. I really need time. She's done such a good job of getting us in debt that it's going to take some time for me to save up enough to even hire a lawyer.
It's just amazing what she's become. I don't recognize her...my wife of 23 years. It just destroys me.
So...what do I tell the MC? How do I begin, with her there sitting next to me?
Me: 51 W: 50 M 24 yrs EA: since Apr 06 S22, S26, S28 ILYBNILWY:Nov 07
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." Tyler Durden
I'd let W do most of the talking, answer questions as they are asked. If the counselor is worth their salt they will quickly recognize what is going on with your W. The three of us did and we aren't professionals at this. Our C pegged it first session, and when I retained a lawyer 9 mos later I learned they see it often too and the L knew exactly what was happening.
Bad news is this counseling thing in your sitch could be a no win situation. If the C agrees or suggests splitting up it may be what your W is looking for. If the C says your W has a problem, she may do what mine did and say the counselor is "full of s**t" and never go back. Don't get too worked up about the counseling session. Mlcers are going to do what they are going to do no matter what.
Many lawyers give a first consultation for free. To get the biggest bang for no bucks start writing down questions you have and take the entire list to that first consult. Lawyers do cost money but you might want to think about how much it's costing you by not taking legal action if she's spending you into the poor house. A legal seperation agreement which protects you financially is not a divorce and if she does persue a divorce there are things you can do to draw out the process(one of the questions you might want to ask an attorney about).
Good news is that mlcers often do wake up and come home. How patient are you?
Hang tough!
Last edited by sleeper; 01/02/0803:20 PM.
"The answers are within you" (can't remember who). Unfortunately, so is the bullshit.
Sleeper, agree with you about counseling. I'm almost certain that the reason we're going is to "fix me". And as far as the counselor figuring out what's going on...hell, my 28 year old next door neighbor had it pegged before I did. She even used the words MLC before I even considered the possibility. So if the counselor doesn't catch on...
Thing is, I'm convinced that she'll do the same thing as your W if she's confronted. In fact, I'm wondering if that might be the best outcome. She quits MC, which won't do her much good now anyway...and I continue. In her mind, I'm working on "fixing me", when in reality, I'm getting some help and support during the worst time of my life. That's probably as close to a win-win as I'll probably get in this situation.
By the way, thank you for that optimistic little line at the end. I really needed that. Deep down, I miss her horribly, and I know it could be better than before. Twenty years in the military...I can be one patient m*therf*cker.
Me: 51 W: 50 M 24 yrs EA: since Apr 06 S22, S26, S28 ILYBNILWY:Nov 07
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." Tyler Durden
First my background. Married 21 years, two children aged 19 and 14 when things fell apart. A fairly typical marriage, pretty good for the most part, some recurrent issues on my part with use of porn, but no extramarital affairs on either part. Oldest son moves out in June of 2006 to live on his own, youngest son is beginning high school in fall. My ex attempts suicide in September, less than a month after my 46th birthday that came complete with a card professing her love for me.
She stays a week in a full-care facility where she meets a 22 year old male who also attempted. The day she gets out, she meets up with him and seduces him, the first betrayal of our marriage that I ever knew about. She files for divorce in October with the support of a psychiatrist who tells her she needs to do whatever will make her happy. She begins living with a female subordinate, often having others over for sleepovers (all this in a one bedroom effficiency apartment).
During a visit with her father she meets up with a guy she had a crush on when she was 16. She decides that HE is the one she should have been with all along. Begins a still ongoing relationship with him. Divorce is final in December, less than 90 days from the start of the mess. She promises both boys that she will not leave town until youngest finishes school, and promises that she will never remarry as it would be hypocritical to say her vows again.
In May 2007 she announces that she has taken a job 500 miles away in the hometown of the old crush. She moves there and begins living with him. She sees her boys twice from May to December.
This was a church-going woman, highly devoted mother, loyal friend. A woman with a strong and well defined moral compass that precluded things such as adultery and divorce as being acceptable. In fact we promised ourselves throughout our marriage that divorce would NEVER be an option.
She didn't do the financial blow through that yours has done. She had several nasty moments, but for the most part just withdrew from all of us to pursue her new life which meant doing whatever she wanted, partying, sleep overs, etc.
I just wanted you to know that you're not alone. MANY of us on here have seen such transformations come seemingly out of left field. We tend to call them MLC, but in hindsight I'm not sure that it particularly matters. The end result is the same whether it is or isn't.
So what have I learned in over a year that might help you?
1. You can do NOTHING that will help this. You may be able to do SOME things that will not hurt the status of things between you.
2. Protecting YOURSELF (and children if any remain at home) is of utmost importance right now. That means both physically, emotionally, spiritually. The best way to do that is to find a way to DETACH from her and her craziness.
3. EXPECT NOTHING. No matter what you do, no matter how she SEEMS to respond to what you do or don't do, expect nothing. One thing these people are is unpredictable. What evokes a smile today can generate hateful venom tomorrow. Again, the need to DETACH.
4. CONTINUE LIVING. Eat well, exercise, pursue your interests. Take advantage of the time apart to fulfill some of YOUR plans and interests. It doesn't matter what you think the impact on the two of you might be some day. Think about YOU and NOW, not on your marriage and your future.
5. Find out what you did. Because you did something. None of us are perfect. Maybe your faults weren't enough to wreck the marriage, but whatever they are, you now have the perfect opportunity for some personal clean up. Look inside a bit, work on identifying and correcting what needs correcting. Whether things are reconciled or not one day, this is a benefit for you and your future.
6. The financial/divorce rules are different from state to state. If yours is running up huge financial debt, find out IMMEDIATELY what you have to do to insulate yourself. If you have to cancel cards, it's worth the possible spew now to do so. If she's intent on sinking her ship, just make sure it's HER ship that sinks, not yours too.
7. Be as kind as possible. I know, it seems crazy. The one thing I've noticed in the stories on this board though is that the only thing that holds potential for healing is keeping relative peace between the two of you. You should NEVER be a doormat, and God knows you should never not call bullshit, bullshit, but there's nothing to be gained from arguments and trying to win points. You won't anyway.
Sorry man. It's a mess. And none of us expected it or wanted it in our lives. But this is now about SURVIVAL.
Any future that might still be possible in your marital relationship will not be helped out by you allowing yourself to be destroyed during this time. That's why NOW HAS TO BE ABOUT YOU! Not her. DETACH, DETACH, DETACH. Move on and live your life. Do not give ANY great significance to the drivel that passes thru her lips. Oh yes, there will be history rewrites that will challenge the great works of fiction. Nothing you can do about it.
As for counseling, I think the others have stated my position. You are being roped in to her efforts to nullify the marriage through this counseling. She may have hand selected the counselor, or she may just be planning on bending the results to what she wants, or trash canning the whole thing if it goes the wrong direction on her. Either way, it's not really for the two of you or your marriage. It's for her. These people have an awesome need to convince others that they are right. Give her no such ammunition.
I would go, call bs on her when it needs to be called, be resolute in your version of reality, and stay cool. No tears and no anger. NONE.
Best wishes my friend. Hope this helps in some way.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I have to tell you something; THIS AIN'T ABOUT YOU!
It's normal to wonder what went wrong, what we did wrong as spouses, what we might have done differently, how we failed, etc. Truth is there is NOTHING that could have stopped this. It's all about them and their issues.
She will probably spew very convincingly that it is your fault (they all do) but don't let yourself be fooled. It's great to go to counseling for yourlself, improve yourself, but do it for you, not her. I fell for that in the beginning and made incredible improvements, all it did was piss her off because I didn't do it sooner.
They're messed up (mine even told me so!) and have to go through this on their own. As much as we wish there is NOTHING WE CAN DO TO STOP IT OR SHORTEN IT. MLC is like a bad stomach virus, its got to run (pardon the pun) its course.
Last edited by sleeper; 01/02/0804:20 PM.
"The answers are within you" (can't remember who). Unfortunately, so is the bullshit.
