All Hope is lost/Help - Part 2

[Evie]

Jen & Saffie,

Thanks for your posts and replies and advice.

Well a lot has happened since the last post and H returned from his holiday.

Jen you are right about getting a reaction later and not necessarily at the time, I have noticed this has happened in the past and when H does reply he replies in a way that he makes it seem it was his idea!!

Xmas was good under the circumstances, I didn't have any expectations so I made it My christmas. There is a lot of positives from the past week and I also want to post some questions to the board as well.

H stayed over on xmas eve. Xmas day the kids and I left H at home to go to my moms for lunch. H had gone when we got back at 6.30pm. Received text off H hoping we had all had a great day. Now if I wanted to be bitter and make him pay then I could have left him to stew in his own juices, but nobody deserves to be on their own on Xmas Day, so I text H and invited him back, he did eventually come over and stay again, sharing with S2.

Somewhere along the way a day or so later, we arranged to take the boys to the cinema and to cut a long story of mis communication short we didn't go. H sent a text and I could tell he was angry as he thought I had delibrately not contacted him. I phoned H to explain my side of the story, but a lot was said which upset me and I had to go out for a walk to calm down, leaving the kids to sort themselves out for 1/2 hr. I left the mobile at home, but when i got back i had a few missed calls and text messages from h. This started almost 24 hours of texting!!!

I'll condense what H said, but he stated that it was his worst xmas ever, that he feels really quilty for hurting me so much, that he bears no resentment, anger or bitterness towards me. He said he had time on his hands and his mind was playing tricks on him, he said he had to much time on his hands to think and couldn't wait to get back to work. He said he thought he was having a nervous breakdown and didn't feel confident or positive atm and the only thing keeping him going was the boys, and the only normality he has is the inside of his car ( i replied that I thought he may have mild depression). He said he realised that lack of communication was his biggest fault and he hated himself for it. H never thought that the seperation would be so emotional or traumatic. He blames work, finances, lack of space (from the kids) and lack of time together. He said he has no regrets and the only grudge he bears is towards my Xh & wife, who he said he feels that they have made us pay all of our time together for me leaving XH. It made me really sad when he said that the house no longer feels like his and that he feels really uncomfortable and unable to relax in it. He said I have decorated and added cats which arn't his. (I asked him to help me decorate the bedrooms so that S1 could move into his own room, he said he would, but he didn't).

When I listened to all of what he was saying, he sounds vulnerable but selfish, it's all about how hard he works to keep this house going so that the kids and I can stay here and he has to live in shoe box!!. He said he realised it was all his own fault. He said that he knew I had great friends whom i could talk too and who I went out a lot with, that he only has 2 friends, one he now hates and the other is a depressive who chages with the wind.

I tried to stay detached,I pointed out that this was want he wanted, he left me and we are just trying to get through this as best way we can, that yes the raw pain of his rejection was still painful, I asked him what he wanted and what he was going to do about it, his reply was mainly down to money and not been able to get a bigger place.

I know 25yrs adviced no pursuing and also no sympathy. I have noticed that 'less is not more'. When H had the boys to stay over during the week, I text him the next morning to see if he would like to take the boys ice skating and I would drive and pick them up. H texted 'yes, what time?' straight back. He also asked me to go to the cinema and then out for dinner with the boys, he said it would be really nice if I came. It was birthday also and he made a special trip into the city to buy my present, he had spent alot to, again I had no expectation of a present so was quite over whelmed when I saw what it was. His card was generic and just said 'best wishes', no 'with Love' or kisses, But i got a card and a present which I didn't expect. I also planned my own birthday this year b/c he has really let me down the last 3 years, so he was suprised when he found out what the plans were and also (i think) that he wasn't involved.

After your reply this morning Jen I decided to text H and invite him for Tea tonight. He replied straight away, 'yes, that would be good, about 4pm?'. Now part of me wanted to go dark and not initiate any more contact, b/c I felt I had made a huge effort this past week. But then on the other hand I thought, this is the last sunday b/c i'l be working every sunday from next week and won't get the chance and also I wanted him to be invited to the hub, see and feel the warmth and love. Not sure if I've done the right thing or not or if it will help achieve or not achieve the ultimate goal?

H still texts a lot, he seems to open up more in texts, but when we see him, he doesn't seem the person who says what he says in texts?

I'm also upset about what he said about feeling uncomfortable in the family home, Will this prevent him in the long run from returning?

He also said a lot of positive things about me, but nothing that indicates that his feelings have changed (early days yet, I guess?)

Jen - your right about the patience, I have a time frame on this in my mind, also I think we need a lot more growing and he is obviously thinking more.

Must go now H is due any minute. Sorry its so long.

Looking forward to hearing from, sorry I have rambled and my writings are hard to understand.

XE

[Jen_Jam]

Hi E

Good luck today - just to let you know my H too didn't feel comfortable in our house - he even said once we "have to" sell it.

Another thing to think about - projecting. If he says to you "W, YOU hold me back, YOU make me feel as if I'm not good enough" .. subsitut the YOU for I and you get a little closer to the truth ... people sometimes project. Think about when peeps accuse others of looking down on them .. usually it's the accuser who feels not good enough.

A lot of your H sounds like mine ... in which case it's probably going to take him a long time and he has a lot of work to do on himself (I'm guessing here, it's just a lot of the things he says sound familiar). Like the spearation ... my H stayed at a friend's flat but didn't really like it, he realised himself the grass is not greener ... seems like your H may be coming to the same conclusion. I hope so. All you can do is create the atmosphee in which he feels comfortable. This is going to be one tough job!

Anyho ... thinking of you, keep posting I hope tonight is a peaceful one.

[Evie]

Hi Jen,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

H turned up on time and stayed for three and half hours, until I put the boys to bed.

He seemed relaxed and in good spirits, he asked what we had done today. I NEVER ask him what he has done, I feel like i'm intruding in his space, he very rarely offers info either (although I was dying to ask what he had done for the last 2 days).

He seemed happy to be here, but just as happy to go again once the boys were in bed. I feel really down now, perhaps I had expectations today or maybe i'm just disappointed with myself for inviting him over b/c I feel he now has the advantage.

New Years Eve, i'm travelling 100 miles to H's brothers and wife, taking the boys. H is invited as well. H has asked me twice tonight what time i'm leaving and confirming that I am going. I know he has been invited, but I haven't said anything to H about his coming b/c i'd be anxious that he'd say no he didn't want to go, or that he already has plans.

Jen - what was the turning point that made your H return home after 2 months? Did he say he was re-committing to the M?

Right now, I don't feel confident that H will return ever. I try to be his best friend as much as he will let me, but in the back of my mind I also know that he may not return and I dread hearing the 'D' word.

Saffie - I'm back at work on wednesday, look forward to catching up.

Happy New Year to you all.

Love Eve
xxx

[Evie]

update - just received a text of H that said 'he was aware that I didn't have to invite him for tea, but thank you'. I replied and said I I knew I didn't have to, I wanted to and thanked him for coming. He replied he had thoroughly enjoyed it. (He was quiet, so I thought he was feeling uncomfortable, so i'm pleased he said that).

Jen, being catching up with your sitch. You did have similarities in your R eg didn't know what the problems were that you were dealing with. Lack of communication. I didn't get to the bit where H decided to leave and then decided to come back again?

Off to bed now to read the re-read that chapter about monitoring results..

XE

[Jen_Jam]

I feel really down now, perhaps I had expectations today or maybe i'm just disappointed with myself for inviting him over b/c I feel he now has the advantage.

or another way of looking at it is that you have been the bigger person, been more magnaminous ... remember forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself. To truly love someone is to give to them and expect nothing in return.
Look on this too as a baby step which could possibly lead to more rewards in the future. Remember the timescale - mine took nearly 2 years, this is a long haul ride but eveything in life which is worth having takes patience and commitment.

In my sitch/threads - I actually had 2 bombs. One in Sept 2005 where H moved out and another at the end of march 2006 when H said ILYBINILWY and "we can't stay married" but didn't move out. I started posting here after the second bomb, hence no real record of when H moved back. But when he did move back again I stated a calm boundary that if he moved out again that it would mean he was gone for good. i also stated I would accpet he needed time to come to a decision but I wasn't willing to be subjected to him coming and going while he decided. he accepted this.

What made him come back? it was all his own decision. He felt it was wrong to be moved out, he was only dossing down at a friends place and he doesn't have the money to rent his own place. he came to the conclusion himself that the situation he had put himself into was bad, but he didn't have a clue how to fix our M. While he was away I gathered my friends around me and went out a lot. Sometimes H and I would meet up, other times he would let me down at the last minute. It was a rough time, what helped me was each time H would say he would meet up with me i'd have a back up plan in place, so I knew I would still have something to look forward to.

As for him re-commiting to the M, well he didn't actually do it as such. My H liked not talking and taking a "wait and see" approach. This was very hard for me to get through, but I did with GAL, and learning to like myself. IOW, I kept my focus firmly on me. I wrote a diary every day too so that I could spill out my feelings.

Since the bomb, H and I have talked a little of what went on. He told me it was mostly in his head, that he had to come to terms with getting older, having responsibilites etc all by himself. When I met H he lived very much day to day. he was in a crummy bedsit and spent all his money as he earned it, had debts on credit cards. With me, we bould savings, bought a flat then a house, we lost weight (we both got really fat), gave up smoking. All the things to point to a healthy and financially secure future. This freaked H out. Looking at his upbringing, his Mum is lovely but she did everything for her kids. My Mum is lovely too, but from age 13/14 I was cooking for myself, doing my own laundry, earning my own pocket money. I was brought up to be more independent than H. H still had to learn a few lessons on taking care of himself. And he didn't like it, but realised there is no alternative (unless he wanted to live his entire life in debt).

Did I bring problems to the M? Yes. i was mean, sarcastic, selfish and bad tempered. And demanding. These problems didn't take me a heck of a lot of effort to solve, but I was really annoyed that once i'd "cured" mself H didn't run back with open arms. I just had to wait it all out and let him come to terms in his own time.

I didn't let him off the hook easily though. I did state very clearly that if he did want to get a D he should think long and hard about it and make sure it was really what he wanted. Turns out it wasn't what he wanted. He also had a problem with avoiding conflict too - he has had to learn that he needs to state his needs/wants. Be more assertive. Assertive is good in that it never demands or shouts, it just states its needs calmly.

Hope this helps and your NY party is fab. it could help you here to have a gratitude list - make a list of the things in life which ARE good. Helped me a lot.

take it easy and "speak" soon

[saffie]

You'll be on your way by now to your party I expect Eve but I just wanted you to know I am thinking of you. Have a great time.

Lots of love

[cat03]

I'm also upset about what he said about feeling uncomfortable in the family home, Will this prevent him in the long run from returning?
===============
no, this is how he feels NOW, that doesn't mean he wont change his mind later. He told you the only place that is comfortable is his car, meaning he is just miserable anywhere, like my H, he is uncomfortable in his own skin, hates what he's become.

H still texts a lot, he seems to open up more in texts, but when we see him, he doesn't seem the person who says what he says in texts?
===================================
It's text book hon, they come close, get scared and retreat, my H was like that a lot when we were S.

He also said a lot of positive things about me, but nothing that indicates that his feelings have changed (early days yet, I guess?)
===========================
It might take a few more months, it is too early, he is still trying to find himself and isn't ready for an R now.

I see good stuff, him seeing the truth and looking hard at the past. Keep doing what you are doing, you've come a long way)))))))) stay strong

[Evie]

Happy New Year everyone.

Thank you my friends for your posts. I really needed something positive, as i'm down in the dumps today.

As from today i start a diary.

I read and will take heart of all your advice, right now I need to process the last 24 hrs through my head, because right now I feel a complete pr*t and my PMA is lacking.

First thing yesterday my SIL txted me to ask if H was coming up for New Year as H had said to her that he had discussed the evening with me and probably wouldn't be coming. H hadn't discussed the evening with me, he just confirmed I was going. I txt H to say we hadn't discussed the evening, he'd only confirmed that I was going and if he didn't have plans (which I had assumed he had)he was more than welcome to come. He replied that 'my face was complete shock, and said it all, and that it was a party which i had obviously discussed with SIL and he didn't want to socialise with family, and I wasn't interested in what he was doing on NY as i hadn't asked'. I replied that I hadnt asked b/c i assumed he had plans as he hated every minute of last NY with me so i didnt want to know what he was doing on NY, it wasn't a party, it was a meal for us and the kids.

I tried to call him at this point as things were getting out of hand. He ignored my calls, so for reasons I cant explain I got in the car and drove the 9 miles to his house!! He didn't look pleased to see me (he said later i had caught him unawares), I said I didn't know what I was doing there and he said he didn't either. I explained that it wasn't a party it was a family meal and we we mis commuincating again. He said he would be in bed by 9 pm with a meal for one and to go and enjoy my NY. At this point I knew I had over stepped my personal boundaries and feeling completely stupid I left.

I collected the boys, turned my phoned off and drove for 2 hours to BIL & SIL's.

When i turned my phone on later there was the usual barrage of missed calls and texts of H.

Jen - remember you said your H listened and absorbed every word you ever said only to be repeated weeks or months later, well H questioned a text i recently sent to him.

Remember the text i sent that said, 'If I could have my time over again, that I have learnt alot, and if i had my time again i would change many things, that I am to blame for the split'?

Well H asked me what I meant by those things?

I replied that now wasn't the time to explain and that i feel a complete pr*t about this morning and that from now on i'll be leaving him alone. He asked me why I had come over and that he never asked me to leave that I left of my own accord.

As H is absorbing every word I say, i need to reply very carefully to his text as i feel it could be an important text to send, i feel very on edge about wording it right??? Please help me here.

I feel completely overwhelmed by the intensity of all the communication over the last week. I feel that H was almost expecting me to be around on xmas day/my bday/Ny eve for him and he's surprised/shocked/disappointed that I have made plans of my own to do things without him????? I think he's having a harder time of this than me? If this is the case then maybe he also doesn't know where he stands, if he loves me or not, if he wants to come home or not.

He said I always assume everything is about me, he meant that when he said he didn't want to mix with family, it wasn't about me, as i HAD assumed it was b/c he hated last NY with me.

How can i not assume its about me?

Sorry if my ramblings don't make sense, they don't to me either!!!

Confused for now.

Love E X

[Jen_Jam]

Hi E ... having a think on this one ....and don't worry about driving to his house, I smacked my H across the face in the middle of a party during our crisis so you can't have the pr^t award I've already got it

It's weird ... it looks as if he wants you to chase him, romance him, beg him to come back, tell him you love him etc etc? it seems you doing the GAL thing and (as it appears to him) "moving on" is scaring him but he's not really prepared to do anything about it, you have to mind read him and guess. Sigh. Sorry I'm not being constructive here ... more later.

I hope others will chime in here ... any LBS girls felt they had to romance their WAH?

[Evie]

Jen - glad there's a bigger pr*t out there other than me!!! (only kidding).

You've hit the nail on the head, thats exactly how it feels .....

H came across this afternoon, I was scared he would want to talk R talks, so I kept a low profile, had a bath, kept busy in the kitchen, I could barely talk to him...i've switched mobile off.

Look forward to hearing 'more' from you later.

XE