My H has been repeatedly sh!t on by the church and has many bones to pick with it as an institution but he is a person of great faith. His faith is what keeps him tied to an imperfect institution with imperfect guardians of its tenants. I would no more talk with either of the priests in our church about the lack of sex in our M than I would the next door neighbor. I might consider doing so at another parish but not ours.
No Dom I haven't followed up on your previous advice. There is a reason for that. I am mentally and emotionally exhausted by over six years of prompting, suggesting, trying, demonstrating, asking, yelling about, writing about, receiving counseling and generally overseeing our sex life. It is dead. Dead as any pancake flat kitty in the road. And I didn't do it. I didn't drive the car. I didn't lure kitty across the road. Yes, kitty was 1/2 mine but only 1/2. Even if kitty is only badly wounded then he/she is losing blood quickly. I CANNOT do this by myself as I had been doing. I told you I stopped doing anything about it nearly a year ago - partly anger, partly apathy, partly respect for myself and in a way, for him.
Right now H and I had a very painful discussion about why he cannot bring himself to be appreciative to my parents for their lovely Christmas gifts to him. His reasons? So convoluted I cannot tell you. In short he has an uncomfortable relationship with gift receiving. The things my parents gave him were expensive, not on his list and represent obligation to him. So a beautiful leather jacket, Eddie Bauer slippers and a few odds and ends feel like some kind of bribe or something. They could have spent the same money on the GPS he wants and he would have been fine with it because it is on his list. Anything off his list that is a luxury item feels icky and evil. So....he regards my parent's, who are not the sort of people to hold anything over someone's head, as semi-evil although he can verbalize that he has weird issues over gifts and he acknowledges that he feels tired, emotionally flat and disconnected and then I throw in and "by the way H, we have no sex life, I hate you for it, get a GD woodie and let's go" and then our wayward sex life will get somewhere? I don't think so. Or, I could go the poor me route, "H, you know how much I love sex, how important it is to me, and it has been such a long time and I am feeling so unattractive to you and so unimportant, couldja just lick me all over so that I can be happy and you will feel manipulated." See Dom? He didn't get it when I asked. He didn't get it when I cried. He didn't get it when I yelled. He didn't get it when I asked for a schedule. He didn't get it when I asked for counseling. He didn't get it when I dressed up, dressed down, worked out, made perfect wifey material. What else can I do that can make a difference? I don't think I can do anything. I think it has to come from him.
Karen, you sound pissed! Probably have a good right to be.
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I would no more talk with either of the priests in our church about the lack of sex in our M than I would the next door neighbor.
It sounds like both of those are extremely unlikely scenarios? Why? What is the shame in wanting sex from your spouse? Why so hard to talk about it?
About the painful discussion - why so painful? Is there a way to bring love back to your heart? Why should a conversation about receiving gifts be so painful? Is there something in you that makes it so?
I know this is just shootin from the hip, but
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"by the way H, we have no sex life, I hate you for it, get a GD woodie and let's go"
you sound pissed. Justifiably. But still, it's hard to make progress that way.
Maybe counseling is worth another shot. I know you said he didn't get it when you suggested counseling. Maybe try again on that? I agree it has to come from him, maybe there is someone who can help him bring it?
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
I'm not writing this in any condescending manner, just for informational purposes only (I'm sure you've posted it somewhere before)....what is it that drives you to stay in this marriage? Besides the obvious....that nobody is really too thrilled about divorce.
karen: I would no more talk with either of the priests in our church about the lack of sex in our M than I would the next door neighbor.
SirPrize: It sounds like both of those are extremely unlikely scenarios? Why? What is the shame in wanting sex from your spouse? Why so hard to talk about it?
Pardon me for jumping in, karen, but SirPrize, you got it wrong... it's not shame, it's a complete lack of respect for the advice she's likely to get from the priest at the church. I don't get one single molecule of shame from karen over wanting sex with her husband-- and she HAS talked about it endlessly... it's not that it's hard to talk about-- it's that it seems useless. (Sorry, karen, I know you can speak for yourself. I guess someone coming upon your thread who has no knowledge of your extensive history MIGHT get the wrong idea.)
I am pissed but you must know that I don't ever express myself that way to him nor appear pissed. I was just writing out in words the angry scenario or the poor me scenario and how it sounds to him in his head regardless of how I actually say it. So I don't say it anymore and haven't for almost a year. I am pissed because in my view ANYONE OF ANY LIBIDO would recognize that 10 months is TOO LONG NOT TO HAVE SEX WITH A SPOUSE WHO HAS REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SEX AN AVERAGE OF 3-4 times/week. Just because they quit saying it doesn't mean it has gone away.
The reason the gift convo was painful was becuase H was so pained by it. I am pained only because I am caught in the middle. My parents were disappointed that he wasn't pleased and my Mom went so far as to say that it hurt her on behalf of my Dad (who doesn't shop) who had personally chosen the leather jacket for H in appreciation of H doing such a wonderful job parenting all the Grandkids. I told H that I thought he had a terrible skewed relationship with all things related to gift giving and that he would be a lot happier if he did the work to untwist it. I told him that I cannot be his counselor and do that. He agreed with everything I said but looked so miserable it then became impossible to proceed with any other "issues" that there might be in our life, like sex.
I have no shame about wanting sex in our marriage. I don't like the priests in our parish. One is holier than thou in all his homilies and would be likely to say, "It is your cross to bear." The other is a really nice guy but is unlikely to be able to get that message across to H. H has had issues and difficulties with the church that would make him a less than enthusiastic recipient of their advice.
Miss IC,
I have been divorced. I know, for a fact, that the process alone and everything that follows is worse than having a sex starved M with a a man who is generally loving, kind, great parent, good financial custodian, does chores, fun to be around, supports me in my work and as a person etc... All of those things are why I stay. My prior experience with D is why I don't go. If H didn't bring the positives to the table, if he treated me like crap, if he couldn't keep a job, if he treated the kids badly then the pain of D wouldn't weigh out like it does. I can't D on behalf of having a SL, I just can't do it. And even though I could find a dozen penny ante reasons to throw in too to make it sound better - the truth would be that sex was the only reason. MJ and Corri had other very significant reasons, sex was merely a by-product. I don't pretend that there are no other issues but they just aren't that significant and I'm not motivated to go around looking for more significant stuff to justify myself.
Lil,
Yeah - I know we have a bunch of people on here who don't know the history. You have it right. Frankly, one of my issues with the church dispensing marital advice is that I'm not sure how celibate people expect to do so with any credibility whatsoever. I don't think that their "marriage to Jesus" is in any way comparable to a marriage between mortals.
I have been divorced. I know, for a fact, that the process alone and everything that follows is worse than having a sex starved M with a a man who is generally loving, kind, great parent, good financial custodian, does chores, fun to be around, supports me in my work and as a person etc... All of those things are why I stay. My prior experience with D is why I don't go. If H didn't bring the positives to the table, if he treated me like crap, if he couldn't keep a job, if he treated the kids badly then the pain of D wouldn't weigh out like it does. I can't D on behalf of having a SL, I just can't do it. And even though I could find a dozen penny ante reasons to throw in too to make it sound better - the truth would be that sex was the only reason. MJ and Corri had other very significant reasons, sex was merely a by-product. I don't pretend that there are no other issues but they just aren't that significant and I'm not motivated to go around looking for more significant stuff to justify myself.
Thank you Karen. I kind of figured that was the case. Different parts of our marriages, but that is basically what I'm dealing with as well. IC is all the above when it comes to parenting, loving etc...Just this one lone black eye that we've got to deal with.
Well, I don't know about being strong. Currently I am playing with baby boy as H goes to the airport to pick up the bigger ones who are coming back from their Dad's house. He voluntarily brought DD3 with him so I could rest since we are all sick with a cold and baby is cutting teeth. It was a tough night. Most men would have high tailed it on some "errand" and left their W toting two babies through the airport to pick up their children from a previous R. Know what I mean? It is stuff like this that keep me from banging him over the head with the frying pan or moving to Tahiti with some guy.
Most men would have high tailed it on some "errand" and left their W toting two babies through the airport to pick up their children from a previous R. Know what I mean? It is stuff like this that keep me from banging him over the head with the frying pan or moving to Tahiti with some guy.
LOL. Well maybe you can still bang him over the head, just hold off on the cast iron variety
Hope you get feeling better. We're all battling the flu in the IC household. D5 gives us a little bit of a warning before she loses her lunch, but D3 is no warning at all! Nice ! Tahiti is sounding very good right now
I have no shame about wanting sex in our marriage. I don't like the priests in our parish. One is holier than thou in all his homilies and would be likely to say, "It is your cross to bear." The other is a really nice guy but is unlikely to be able to get that message across to H. H has had issues and difficulties with the church that would make him a less than enthusiastic recipient of their advice.
HI Karen, I've certainly experienced myself, that different priests, can have vastly different attitudes on various subjects. And that some are more helpful than others.
Your husband is not going to be "enthusiastic" about what they have to say to him either way. I think it would be highly beneficial to you, for him to hear it anyway Depending on how good a speaker that priest is. Otherwise... nothing wrong with going to a priest outside your immediate parish, if you have a need for it.
Does your husband still attend church, on a semi-regular basis?
And has your husband ever mentioned a preference that HE has, for either priest, or possibly others?
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
Depending on how good a speaker that priest is. Otherwise... nothing wrong with going to a priest outside your immediate parish, if you have a need for it.