Maybe not too complicated to understand

[Michael Mc C]

Nothing much going on here, getting ready for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day (two separate celebrations). Still finishing up shopping. I'm taking the kids out with me this morning to help out.

The spirit of the holiday is helping me boost my PMA but I'm trying to keep in mind that after the high of the holidays has past, I'll need to be sure I have a real foundation for that PMA.

W is walking around gloomy and not very interested in anything. As far as I know it's not my fault but either way I'm not worrying about it.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to everyone!

[Michael Mc C]

Began posting last night but my W spilled her wine all over my laptop (complete accident).

Christmas Eve was really nice until I opened my yap and made a snide remark to my W. Got her and MIL both pissed at me. I deserved it if for no other reason than we were surrounded by family at the time. Took a little time to cool down and made my apologies. By the end of the night we were all on good term again. I can be my own worst enemy.

Christmas was very nice. It was just the five of us and my W made the customary Christmas dinner. She really liked the gifts I had gotten for her so I felt great about my selections - nothing from a list mind you...

She went to MIL's in the middle of the day to help clean up from the night before. When she got back she made a comment about getting back into her pajamas and grabbing some wine. I gave her a high-five (such a romantic) and said Merry Christmas in a goofy sort of way. Immediately following that I gave her a hug and she hugged back, unexpectedly strong and close and long. It was nice. I said Merry Christmas again and so did she. It was actually beautiful. I gave her a kiss on the side of her head (felt it was safest) and let her go.

I don't read ANYthing into it. It was definitely a loving hug but loving that you would show your best friend of 20 years, nothing more.

Hope everyone is doing well.

[LL44]

Sounds like a great couple of days. And yes, we can't read into those little things, but even an ounce of caring from these cold spouses of ours is nice.

Yay on the gifts, good call!!!

[Michael Mc C]

Had an unexpected R talk this morning just after waking up. W said that we need to discuss with the kids what is going on between us.

Her: We need to tell them at some point what's going on. I'm still thinking about moving to my mother's. I think it might be best.
Me : What benefit will there be with you moving to your mother's?
Her: At some point I will be ready to move on and I can't do that here.
Me : Before he (OM) showed back up you weren't in a hurry to go anywhere.
Her: Right, that's why I had to do this, to make sure I was leaving for me and not for him.

<She's telling me that she broke it off with him, not the other way around. I know that this is not the case.>

Me : You never responded to the email I sent a couple of weeks ago. I wasn't expecting anything really but I'm surprised I never even got an "everyone is entitled to their opinion".
Her: I'm just tired of arguing about everything.

<My email pointed out that our marriage was not decaying before OM showed up in the summer. That the hole she was feeling when he backed away in October was not a hole he had filled during the summer. In other words, our marriage was not broken. Her feelings for me were slowly and systematically replaced by prolonged interaction with him.>

Me : The hole you felt when he left wasn't a hole you felt before he even showed up. Our marriage was not broken.
Her: I know.
Me : Our marriage was not dying a natural death. I'd like you to consider that and know that there are ways to fix it.
Her: And I'd like you to consider that maybe it's time to accept that it's over and we need to move on. I think we should continue counselling to make this easier on everyone.
==================
Well at this point I'm not sure what to do. I guess the answer is there's nothing I can do. If she feels the need to move out I can't stop her. If she feels the need to go out and fill this hole with someone new, it makes me sad for her but again, there's nothing I can do about that. I thought that I'd be able to fill that hole given time but she's not willing to give it that time. I just think it's a shame that she knows the marriage wasn't on the way out but she feels it's okay to give up on it now that this has happened.

Maybe she doesn't want to face the guilt or she's afraid of accountability. I just don't know. She mentioned that she wants to be able to move on without anger and recrimination. I want to label this behavior (I'm odd that way) but can't figure it out. Is it weak morals, a character flaw, a defense mechanism to keep her from truly facing consequences? Am I simply too dense to see that she has made up her mind and regardless of the logic of that decision she will not waver?

I also believe that she is still pining for him. She did not end it so she wants closure. Actually, it's not closure she wants but instead she wants it to work out between them so she has her fantasy world to hide in.

The last time he walked away she thought about dating. I'm sure she has the same thoughts now. Making up for the loss she is suffering. Instead of trying to fix our marriage she would rather go out, find someone new and patch the emotional hole.

[Hurtin4certain]

Mike.. that sucks man. In your case, I would encourage her to move out. Its a whole different ballgame when you are separated physically. It does many things:

1. You wont have to watch and continually be hurt by her bs.
2. She will realize that the world is a cold, cruel place to be all alone (even if she does have OM).
3. This will give you the much needed break to work on yourself and detach, I cant begin to tell you how much easier it is when you're separated.

You will feel intense pain when she leaves and always wonder what she is doing. But, after a while, you will feel a calm come over you. You will realize that you can live without her.

Trust me man... If I can survive a separation, you can. I thought I was going to die and I even contemplated ending my life. Im so glad that I stuck it out because I feel like Ive grown so much as a person.

She needs a chance to miss you and the kids, this might be the only way for her to feel that loneliness. No more R talks, start moving on. The sooner you do that, the better the chances of her coming back.

In my case it took about 8 months for my W to see the light. I had moved on and even had a girlfriend (I dont recommend that). I truly let her go. Then one day, out of the blue, she called me. She told me she filed a petition to stop our divorce and that if I wanted it, I would have to file myself. Then she started calling me, little by little she really opened up and showed me how much she had missed me.

Praying for you bro. You can do this, I know you can.

[Michael Mc C]

At this point I see no reason for her to stay other than for the kids' sake. I won't try to stop her. I don't think I'd push her out the door quite yet but I agree, she is here in the thick of things. In her mind nothing has changed. Nothing has ever changed and she still bitches about legacy issues - things that haven't been a problem for many years.

She told me tonight that she has no interest in rediscovering love, attraction and romance with me. It was in response to a mail I sent her (she started the R talk this morning and left for work). Anyway, I need to wash my hands of her and the marriage at this point.

My wife won't be happy until she gets out in the great big world and proves that she is right about having been held back and miserable for God knows how many years.

Today has been pretty liberating for me. I feel more detached now than I ever have. I know that once she moves out and again when she starts dating I will feel some pain. I am preparing myself for both. I am no longer looking at the future and thinking of options for making this work. I made a commitment to her and to my kids. My commitment to her has already been severely diminished. It is time for me to commit more to my children.

I want her to leave our home and that's mildly disturbing to me. I believe it is the only logical next step if there was to be any hope for us. while she is here she will never see me as more than a friend, a co-parent or a housemate. She needs to get out there and live her life just as she has planned.

The sad thing is that with OM gone she has already been discussing dating again. She doesn't see the sickness in her decisions. She is going to try to patch the emotional hole that was left behind by OM, a hole that did not exist before she met him. In other words, she replaced me with him, he disappeared and now she's empty inside. I tried to warn her months ago that this would happen exactly in this way.

What do I know? I'm just a needy, immature man who doesn't understand anything about love and have no idea what she could possibly be going through.

Bah!!

On a high note, I have completed 3 out of 18 things on my "daddy-do list" and should have a 4th completed this weekend. I joined the gym effective Jan 1 but was able to sneak in tonight. I'm surprised I can even type at this point! I feel fantastic considering what I'm faced with but here's what I know:

• My children love me unconditionally (as do I!)
• My wife has indeed changed and I would never consider her, as she is now, "wife" material
• 99% of my actions during this situation have been admirable and I am damn proud of what I've done
• I am changing for the better and for myself. My kids will benefit from this as will anyone else I come in contact with
• I no longer feel I am losing something here. That loss was incurred some time ago and I am coping fairly well

Thanks all! I don't consider this the end, I'm keeping all options open.