Here we go 'round in circles...

[Rob1231]

All is well for me, personally. I have a friendly, peaceful marriage, and I'm hoping to build it into something better. To me, that is a gift in itself.

SD

Wonderful to hear! I agree with Jeff, although I'll never think of you as "Old SD"!

Have you made yourself a Plan of Action for building your M into something better? Care to share it? It's SOOOO tempting to take things slower, and relax - 'cause let's face it, that frantic energy that comes from being bombed and DBing like crazy is pretty hard to maintain! The danger (for you, me, and many, many of the folks in Piecing) is to not relax TOO much.

Hope you have a terrific holiday planned!

[SDFoundGirl]

[What happened about LW's party?

Thanks, Jen. Glad to know this is "normal" or whatever you want to call it. Not normal, but not the crazy path we were on originally.

Ah, LW's party. I told H I didn't want to go, that because I value myself I was making the choice not to attend. I told him he was free to go if he wished with my blessings.

He went.

So...I had to do some personal work around that. What I should have done if I was being completely true to myself is tell him I would prefer it if he didn't go, but that it was his choice. That would have been the honest answer. Instead, I was being the "good" wife...and I vowed not to hold those things to myself any longer. Anyway, he went, and so I went out with friends instead. Nothing major, but like I said I *did* have to do a lot of work on myself and taking responsibility for my feelings.

We're in Hawaii for a family vacation now...Oahu. Not the island we would have picked, and lots of "have" to's for his mom who is determined to have happyfamilychristmaskumbyya. H becomes such a pleaser around his family...and as such it's not been a whole lot of fun. Some good things, especially when we get out of the city to see the island instead of awful Waikiki, LOL. Right now I'm in the lobby on my laptop taking some SD sanity time so I can maintain my peace!

SD

[SDFoundGirl]

You sound wounderful again. I was worried for a bit. I don't want you folks in piecing to join me in Surviving.

Deal?

Thanks for checking in, Jeff. All I can say is I'll do my best. I can onlny control my choices and actions, so what I will promise you is that I will act in my own best interest and personal happiness. I will promise to make my life great, no matter what. Fair? As to whether this M will survive or not...I don't know. But I'm going to try and do everything in my power.

Hope you have a great Christmas! I agree--we totally need to crash Jen's place and celebrate English-style!

SD

[SDFoundGirl]

[Have you made yourself a Plan of Action for building your M into something better? Care to share it? It's SOOOO tempting to take things slower, and relax - 'cause let's face it, that frantic energy that comes from being bombed and DBing like crazy is pretty hard to maintain!

Well, we're working on this in MC. The C asked me what I still wanted in the M...and I said I wanted true intimacy. H and I are friendly and get along, but that's not enough for me. I want real intimacy in my R...and it's something I'm working on with friends as well. Trust is a really challenging area for me, and so I imagine this will be somewhat of a long process.

So the MC gave us an assignment to be spontaneous and lighten up a bit with each other on our trip to Hawaii (even though we knew we'd be sharing a bedroom w/another couple and under lots of stress). Has it worked? Not so well. He's so uptight...really...and I am more the laugh l loudly-speak my mind-playful type. It makes it hard.

I have to say, I kind of want a whole lot more from him. Don't know if he'll deliver, but I'm willing to try and give him the space and patience to give me what I want in a partner as well. We'll see. In the meantime, I'm working on myself and making myself happy.

Have a great Christmas!

SD

[Jen_Jam]

You are all most welcome to come over to my place - I would LOVE to have you all stay!!! Maybe a little late for this xmas though ...

It's a shame H went to LW's party ... yes part of me thinks he "should" have not gone but then that sounds like controlling ... and no-one wants a R where the other person feels compelled, it all has to be out of choice. But what could you have done? yes, say you'd prefer he didn't but that he was free to go, but then even that may have sounded a little like controlling. it's a tough one.

Ok - your H being a pleaser - mine too (although nowdays he's not a complete pushover like he used to be). And so it leads to a family holiday you're not 100% happy with, but I can see you will make the best of it. Do you maybe feel that H is pushing you down on his list of priorities? I sometimes feel like this, that work, the gym, having a quick pint come first before me. In my case, i've paid attention and note that sometimes I come firsst, sometimes second, sometimes way down the list. As long as some of the time I come first I'm happy to let the other times drop. But I sense it may be different for you ... do you ever feel as if you come first with H? If he were to be putting you first sometimes, what would he be doing? I'm fishing here ... remember in the DR book it states that we should be specific ... what does "more intimacy" look/feel like to you (if you answer this question remember this is a family website, LOL). Communicating that to H, maybe could help? If you've already done it maybe try again?

Ok - onto you.So stuck in Hawaii huh? Gosh, life gets hard - wanna swap? It's flippin' freezig here!!! I'm joking of course. I'm off work now until Jan 2nd - woo hoo - so if you need some rant time chances are I'm gonna be around. If it all gets a bit much let the steam riase off the keyboard.

Chin up, stay with us and have a lovely Xmas

[SDFoundGirl]

Jen,

It's a shame H went to LW's party ... yes part of me thinks he "should" have not gone but then that sounds like controlling ... and no-one wants a R where the other person feels compelled, it all has to be out of choice. But what could you have done? yes, say you'd prefer he didn't but that he was free to go, but then even that may have sounded a little like controlling. it's a tough one.

No, actually I don't think it's controlling. I had to do a lot of work around that...because expressing your true feelings is not controlling. Now, if I'd said something like, "I don't want you to go, and if you do I think it's going to hurt our M," that's a lot more controlling to me. Would he have liked the way I should have said it? Would he have liked my feelings? Probably not. However, I am only responsible for my feelings, not his. I think the key piece is that I would have been being true to my own feelings and saying them because it was the honest thing to say, not to elicit a particular response from H. Make sense?

Ok - your H being a pleaser - mine too (although nowdays he's not a complete pushover like he used to be). And so it leads to a family holiday you're not 100% happy with, but I can see you will make the best of it. Do you maybe feel that H is pushing you down on his list of priorities? I sometimes feel like this, that work, the gym, having a quick pint come first before me. In my case, i've paid attention and note that sometimes I come firsst, sometimes second, sometimes way down the list. As long as some of the time I come first I'm happy to let the other times drop. But I sense it may be different for you ... do you ever feel as if you come first with H?

H is getting better I suppose, and I am learning to accept this part of him. But...do I ever feel first? Not much. Rarely. If I'm honest, I can't tell you the last time he put me first. H tends to not be able to multi-task, so whatever is most pressing on him gets his attention. Work gets busy, it's 100% what he's focused on. His family is bickering about what restaurant to go eat at or what we should do, and that's 100% what he's focused on. When I turn up the heat in MC, that's really the only time I'm first...but then a new crisis or whatever comes along, and that's where his attention goes. It's like he can't sustain anything for me...and so I guess somewhere I kind of question why he's in this R. But I can't stay in that place mentally...it feels bad, and it takes the focus off of working on me and GAL. I can't do anything about how H feels, and he pretty much doesn't talk about it, so I have no way of knowing what's in his mind.

If he were to be putting you first sometimes, what would he be doing? I'm fishing here ... remember in the DR book it states that we should be specific ... what does "more intimacy" look/feel like to you (if you answer this question remember this is a family website, LOL). Communicating that to H, maybe could help? If you've already done it maybe try again?

More intimacy would look like ease and comfort with each other. It would be actions that showed he enjoyed my company and looked forward to the time we spend together. It would be hugs and kisses and come ons. It would be having sex more often...lots more often. Hell, 70-year old couples STILL have sex 3x a week, and we're not even at that number in a month. Intimacy would mean I let my guard down...that I didn't second guess myself or measure my actions by how he reacts or what I think he might think. It would be open communication on his part (I've got some work to do, but I'm light years ahead of where he is)...about what he wants and needs from me. It would be KNOWING that going to LW's party might cause me pain and choosing not to go. It would be making US a priority instead of offering excuses like work's crazy or whatever else gets in the way. It would be playfulness and fun and joy. It would be tackling problems that come up together. It would be the belief that I'm not the "bad" one...on both our parts I guess.

Hard to write that out...because we're so far away from that. And I'm tired and STILL freaking sick right now (2-weeks and counting) so it's making it more difficult to keep up my PMA. And we still have family time with his dad this week (H's parents are divorced), so I'm not free. As soon as I am, though, I may take off on my own for a few days. At the very least, I'm going to treat myself to a facial and a massage!

Ok - onto you.So stuck in Hawaii huh? Gosh, life gets hard - wanna swap? It's flippin' freezig here!!! I'm joking of course. I'm off work now until Jan 2nd - woo hoo - so if you need some rant time chances are I'm gonna be around. If it all gets a bit much let the steam riase off the keyboard.

Actually, just got back from Hawaii tonight. Good to be back! Hawaii is beautiful...but honestly, my best advice is to get the h*ll off of Oahu and go visit the other islands. The traffic is HORRENDOUS, people are cranky, and Waikiki is over touristy. Not my kind of place...I prefer more secluded, naturey stuff. But it wasn't bad overall...I got to see some great stuff, and I got to set my intentions for the year at a really beautiful spot right on the ocean. That was my favorite moment of the trip.

And I'd love to go to England, cold or not. H and I are talking about taking a trip to Europe in the spring, so I may be asking for your expert advice.

Have a great Christmas and vacation. And thank you...one of the things I listed on my "gratitude" side of my intentions for the coming year and appreciations of the past year was the people who have supported me via this website. How wonderful is it that we can reach out to others around the globe in similar situations to make sense of the pain and craziness, to develop friendships and receive support?

Anyway, to anyone else who's still reading this thread, know that you are appreciated more than you could ever know.

SD

[Jen_Jam]

hey - SD ditto too, got stuff to say but got to start the mad rush to get to the in-laws for Xmas.
MIL and FIL are fine, the siblings aren't too keen on me so I'm going to be DB'ing them like crazy! At least I have H on my side

Anyway - have a great Xmas, see you on the other side

[NikB]

Merry Christmas SD!!!!

Hope you feel much better soon.

[Rob1231]

No, actually I don't think it's controlling. I had to do a lot of work around that...because expressing your true feelings is not controlling. Now, if I'd said something like, "I don't want you to go, and if you do I think it's going to hurt our M," that's a lot more controlling to me. Would he have liked the way I should have said it? Would he have liked my feelings? Probably not. However, I am only responsible for my feelings, not his. I think the key piece is that I would have been being true to my own feelings and saying them because it was the honest thing to say, not to elicit a particular response from H. Make sense?

Makes perfect sense to me! For me, that's an easy trap to fall into - assuming that my feelings and needs are understood, or simply not being assertive enough to express them. No matter how much we learn - there's always more to do, isn't there?

H is getting better I suppose, and I am learning to accept this part of him. But...do I ever feel first? Not much. Rarely. If I'm honest, I can't tell you the last time he put me first. H tends to not be able to multi-task, so whatever is most pressing on him gets his attention. Work gets busy, it's 100% what he's focused on. His family is bickering about what restaurant to go eat at or what we should do, and that's 100% what he's focused on. When I turn up the heat in MC, that's really the only time I'm first...but then a new crisis or whatever comes along, and that's where his attention goes. It's like he can't sustain anything for me...and so I guess somewhere I kind of question why he's in this R. But I can't stay in that place mentally...it feels bad, and it takes the focus off of working on me and GAL. I can't do anything about how H feels, and he pretty much doesn't talk about it, so I have no way of knowing what's in his mind.

FWIW, I think the "poor multi-tasking" trait is pretty common for men - and we find it equally frustrating that the women we know do it so well, we often perceive it as being unable to focus and finish one train of thought without weaving a dozen others into a single conversation! It's just confusing, I tell ya!

If he were to be putting you first sometimes, what would he be doing? I'm fishing here ... remember in the DR book it states that we should be specific ... what does "more intimacy" look/feel like to you (if you answer this question remember this is a family website, LOL). Communicating that to H, maybe could help? If you've already done it maybe try again?

More intimacy would look like ease and comfort with each other. It would be actions that showed he enjoyed my company and looked forward to the time we spend together. It would be hugs and kisses and come ons. It would be having sex more often...lots more often. Hell, 70-year old couples STILL have sex 3x a week, and we're not even at that number in a month. Intimacy would mean I let my guard down...that I didn't second guess myself or measure my actions by how he reacts or what I think he might think. It would be open communication on his part (I've got some work to do, but I'm light years ahead of where he is)...about what he wants and needs from me. It would be KNOWING that going to LW's party might cause me pain and choosing not to go. It would be making US a priority instead of offering excuses like work's crazy or whatever else gets in the way. It would be playfulness and fun and joy. It would be tackling problems that come up together. It would be the belief that I'm not the "bad" one...on both our parts I guess.

Certainly, H's single-mindedness doesn't excuse failing to put you first.

Look at it this way. We all have strengths and weaknesses - tendencies we need to exploit or overcome as we go about getting things done in our lives. Perhaps you could approach it that way in MC - as a problem to be solved. (We men usually like that! ) The problem is, H gets sucked in by the attention-grabbing Issue of the Day and forgets to keep on track with his efforts to improve your relationship (and I do believe that, deep down, he wants to do that.) How can he overcome that tendency? What new habits does he need to cultivate that will keep him on track, and how can he reinforce them? Heck, maybe just a big sign on his bathroom mirror that says "What have you really done to improve your marriage in the last 24 hours?" (I think I could use a sign like that too!) And while we're on the subject, how can you gently help nudge him along, without feeling like you are having to be responsible?

Anyway, to anyone else who's still reading this thread, know that you are appreciated more than you could ever know.

I'm still reading, even though I'm not posting as much these days as I used to. Believe me, the feeling is mutual, for you, Jen, and all the others.

Have a wonderful New Year - make it your best ever!!!

[NikB]

Happy New Year SD!!! May 2008 be wonderful for all of us.