... I've been meaning for awhile to flesh out some of my experiences with my husband, who reminds me in some ways of both of yours (as described).
I don't know if any of it will be helpful, but you never know....
Some characteristics:
1. He is a very "nice guy", not in the covert contract sense but just a genuinely nice guy, gentle, generous, etc but with a cordial loathing for football, hockey, and other cultural manifestations of male aggression. OTOH, a man with a lot of anger from FOO issues who is terrified of his own temper. He has always tended to have as many female as male friends (if not more). He has trouble separating violent/harmful aggression from positive assertiveness, esp (or at least, most troubling to me) in the sexual arena. In the sense that he held back from any aggressiveness because he wanted no part of anything vaguely reminiscent of rape.
2. He had *massive* FOO/religious issues surrounding sex and touch, ie, no sex before marriage, masturbation is roughly the moral equivalent of killing puppies, etc. (Also, his mom was batsh*t crazy (still is) and he was not allowed to touch her in any way.) As a result of the demonisation of lust, his normal stratospheric teenage libido led him to masturbate (big surprise) but then he would feel so bad about it that he would destroy the magazine he had or whatever he sexually fixated on. This dichotomy was so painful to him that he had suicidal thoughts (lovely thing to associate with one's sexuality .... sigh).
3. A sexual kink which I'm not going into detail about, but that is pretty common. This didn't help with the whole desire v. guilt thing, as above.
That's some background. All this came out bit by bit, much of it over the past year or so when we hit some *major* conflict about sexuality and touch in our marriage. He was holding back, either by rejecting me outright or emotionally during foreplay, the act, afterwards ... I could feel it and it was breaking me. I could go into all that, but I just want to talk about what actually helped. A lot of things helped some .... me being able to articulate exactly what sensual touch meant to me in terms of feeling loved was a biggie. Also, interestingly, he got on this site at some point and read a lot of the "sex starved wife" messages up top, which really gave him insight into my POV without any drama and touched his heart. So we were able to talk *a lot*, about specifics, up to and including him realizing that I was a prime candidate for having an affair if things continued on. It was all small steps, for the most part .... small improvements kept things even keel enough to keep talking like loving adults as opposed to rabid hyenas and keep moving forward.
One big breakthough was when he told me the story about destroying his magazines after masturbating .... I was literally blown away and moved to tears and said something about how it all made so much sense .... how could he truly dive into our sexual relationship when this program of destroying whatever gave him sexual pleasure was still running somewhere in his brain? His passion was in conflict with his care and love for me. He had never thought about it that way ... but it really rung true with him .... and just the act of recognizing and naming that program seems to have gone a long way toward pulling its teeth.
The one HUGE thing that made a difference *immediately* was this. I knew about his fetish (although not until years into the marriage), and it didn't totally disgust me (well, in honesty, it *really* put me off at first, but I'd gotten past that). But it certainly wasn't a *turn on* for me, and I made no secret of that. Then one day I was talking with a friend, and he made some passing reference to having a curiousity in the same general area as my husband's fetish. And I thought, "ok, whatever, dude, if that's what turns you on, that's just your unique sexuality." Then I had to do some really hard thinking: if I could be that accepting of my friend's sexuality, why was I having trouble embracing my husband's on the same terms? In other words, what the hell was wrong with me??? How dare I make him feel somehow substandard sexually just because I was somewhat uncomfortable with (as opposed to morally repulsed by) his uniqueness in this area? Why couldn't I just appreciate him for who he was instead of trying to get him to run my script?
So ... I went home and told him exactly that. And we spent the whole next weekend exploring his fetish with my full cooperation and enthusiasm. And he was all over me physically; it was awesome. Just feeling *fully* embraced and accepted for what he was made a huge difference. Somehow, it seems to have freed him to express his sexuality more confidently in ways totally unrelated to his fetish. To the point where he has actually gotten comfortable enough to explore some of *my* interests in being dominated physically/mild pain play, which I *never* thought would happen. (It helped that I was finally able to articulate why I liked it so he could see that it had nothing to do with wanting to be mistreated). And he's actually learned to enjoy it, as I have learned to appreciate his preferences .... mostly because we can see how much each other relishes and is energized by being able to display our sexual uniqueness to each other.
We're in sort of a rough patch at the moment, because he's looking for a new job and the focus has just shut down his libido which always happens when he's especially stressed. I'm not crazy about it, but that's life, and it will pass, because we've both absolutely committed to keeping our sexual relationship from going dormant, regardless of the circumstances.
It was interesting that we made the most progress when I (as the supposed "high libido" partner) was willing to really push *my* sexual limits too.....
I don't know if any of that helps anyone at all. It took a LOT of talking and tears to get to where we are now, and if your partner refuses to talk about sexual issues, then progress becomes unlikely. Even so .... I just throw it all out there in case anything sounds familiar ... maybe you'll see a new button to try pushing.
Last edited by Kettricken; 12/22/0701:04 AM.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Hi Ket I really liked your post. I just posted a new thread that explains the dynamic in my own M. And I guess it just turns me off that he is so turned off by what turns me on (if that makes sense, lol). It's very invalidating. You were able to validate your H's fantasy and that brought you closer together. I wish my H would be more open to at least trying it out more. But he doesn't. And that's what makes me not even want to do the "vanilla" sex with him. I'm probably just making the situation worse, I know it, but I'm annoyed. Why do I want to have sex with a man who thinks what I like is a "huge turn off?" He might as well say I am a huge turn off. This sucks. I'm glad things are going better in your own SL. Sorry about the current job stressors though. Thanks for starting this thread.
he's looking for a new job and the focus has just shut down his libido which always happens when he's especially stressed..
That sort of happens to me.
I tend to think I have to earn the $$ to be looked upon as the provider, man in the lead, sort of like the ship's captain. I suppose I think I have to earn my W’s admiration before I am desired, which has something to do with protecting or providing, being responsible for the care of my family unit.
I don’t understand how a man can respect himself if his woman has to pay for things, as some free loading men do.
Interesting thoughts. My H has a whacky Mom but not in the way you described. After getting knocked up and "having to get married" - his Dad leaves her with 3 kids and no $$$. She proceeds to keep a dirty, messy house and consistently place her boyfriends above her children. This weekend we were talking and he actually said, "She showed time and time again that sex and her relationships with men were more important than her children." In contrast he commented that my Dad frequently compliments him on his good fathering but never that he is a good husband or a snappy dresser. He said that is consistent with what he was aiming at. Being a good Dad is paramount to him. Inference? He is being the kind of parent that she wasn't. Also, I guess his behavior keeps me being the kind of mother that she wasn't.
H's Mother was very religious and H religiousness was enhanced by the icky divorce. He sought comfort and belonging in the church, went to seminary for a few years, held offices, ran programs. The church is a punishing mother though - he got his wrist slapped many times for many things. He has lots of body hang ups but is clear that he doesn't buy the church's issues on MB but he does (to an extent) on pre-marital sex. If the sex is with someone you intend to procreate with and/or marry then it is "less bad".
As for the "kink"??? Don't know of any. He probably has one/some but he scrupulously hides these from me.
Like your H, stresses will nuke my H's libido. It is already questionable to begin with. Stressors probably just drive him to take care of himself instead. Thus, our drought of almost 1 year.
Stigmata expressed some thoughts on getting past these issues with my H. I would like to explore these more but lately I have had precious little posting time.
If the sex is with someone you intend to procreate with and/or marry then it is "less bad".
That is somewhat like I thought Karen1.
Maybe it is some what like the following thoughts I had when I was 20.
Milk the cow, maybe you wind up having to buy it. Maybe the cow comes with a farm you won't be able to manage. Maybe I need more ag schooling, and in a few years I will know how to manage a farm.
But once I decided to buy the cow and farm, why hold back, as long as there weren’t too many calf’s to tend, enough grass in the fields to feed everyone.
Sorry about the year long drought. I have to force water on my grass every so often to keep it a little green.
My H has a whacky Mom ... [she] consistently place her boyfriends above her children. This weekend we were talking and he actually said, "She showed time and time again that sex and her relationships with men were more important than her children."
karen, the more you say about your H, the more convinced I am that they are twins separated at birth. Bf's mom also dated a lot when he was a kid (she D'd his dad when bf was a toddler). Bf told me that he used to go in his room, shut the door, and put his fingers in his ears so he couldn't hear her and her dates in the next bedroom.
Your H's mom is religious?? Bf's mom is a Preacher's Kid. Her dad was an uneducated circuit-riding Methodist preacher in rural Kentucky. She's almost 90, so this would have been in the 1920's and 30's. He was also an abusive parent to his children, but bf (the grandson) was close to him and got some of his "fathering" from him.
Bf is a wonderful father-- one of the best and most consistent things about him.
I would definitely describe his mom as wacky. Is that why neither of these men can have a simple, straightforward, affectionate relationship with a woman? Because their moms warped forever their view of womanhood?
I am thinking it has a great deal to do with it. He is very wary of women unless they are in a mothering or business role. He really respected his Mom in her profession (nurse). His Mom is religious in an odd kind of way. She likes the life of the church, makes the priests into demi-Gods of sorts and uses church as a kind of general touch stone for life. OTOH - I've never heard her talk about faith, works, how God has affected her life or any such spiritual speak. H does.
H can interact with me best as Mom and Wife. After that it gets confusing.
No, he absolutely would not. He would go visit, put home healthcare and various family members in place (orchestrate things via the phone instead if possible) and hightail it home ASAP. Their R is so uncomfortable and painful that it is sheer torture for him to hang out there. We do once/year for a long weekend. I feel that there is something she would need to do or say that would help but whatever it is hasn't happened.
