Relational Equality vs, Relational Equivalency

[LustForLife]

Hi Stigmata!
Good to see BF's better half again, lol.
But stop dropping in only once every six months or so. It's annoying.
What's going on in your world?

BF
Here's the thing. The guys can get the idea that women find you interesting (you are) but it's only interesting to the extent that they are trying to figure you out. If you don't let them figure you out, they'll eventually lose interest. I still think there are more sides to you.
Ex. BF seems like a player, but he is posting on this BB. Dichotomy.
That why I said don't pretend to be the beer women slam. I know, I know, that's just women's perception, right? BS!
The reason women find you interesting/attractive is that you are so over the top. But that same interest flames out when all they see is arrogance and maybe some disrespect for women. I know you don't feel that way but why do so many women say they see that in you? Just something to think about.
Also, the puppy side is what is going to make you attractive to someone long term. All wolf is just arrogance that will kill attraction in the end. You were certainly arrogant when you thought you didn't have to "tend your W's fence". more bs.
All I'm saying is take it down a notch. Be confident. That is amazingly attractive. But don't be disconnected or invulnerable. Not attractive. You said men can't really go back and forth between wolf and puppy. I don't think that's true.
I'll use my favorite case study as an example: Alpha Soldier Guy. He was all wolf while having sex. But minutes later, he would be bringing raw brownie batter (one of my favorites) into the bed so we could snuggle, watch a movie, spork, you get the idea. Granted he wasn't Mr Talkative. But he showed a softer side that made him totally hot, only because I knew he was already wolf. See what I mean? And he was never once arrogant or cocky. He didn't need to be. He was just confident.
So take that and do what you will with it. I'm not holding out hope you will see any of the light here but I'm offering it up anyways.

LFL

[Stigmata]

Hi, Stig. Whatcha talkin' 'bout? We're always having fun here in the SSM playroom.

Yes. Projecting. Don't like malingering. This place reminds me of a time when the heat sink on my brain pan failed and fried my circuits into stream-of-consciousness 10,000-word posts. Makes me sad to see others sitches resolving with all of the rapidity of a soap opera storyline.

"WTF? Five years of not watching GH and Luke and Laura STILL haven't Fed yet??" HmmpfI don't know why you watch this crap, Nana. . Click.

1) I was playing house with SG and she was the Mommy and she told me to put my monkey panties in the wash and safety pin my bunny panties to my t-shirt 'cause there's lot of bad boys hanging out on the playground. See (flips skirt).

Ack! The womanly imagery mixed with the kiddie imagery just bi-located my brain into simultaneous disparate directions.

If Shaquille O'Neill sends the Internet pedophile police over to smash down my door, cuff me, and haul away my computer I'm coming after your @ss. Hope your ju jut su taught you how to defend against the 'flying guillotine.'

2) Corri is trying to teach me how to play strict teacher in the school corner but she doesn't get that the monkeyboys actually LIKE it when you play strict schoolteacher.

You have no idea. I firmly believe if this approach is taken with Mr. Karen1, Mr. LFL, Mr. GEL, perhaps 'Mr." LP, it will remove the fear of the Ms approaching the Fs and get things kick-started. Just saw LFL's new thread. To be expected. Ms with sexual dysmorphia haaate verbalizing about their submissive feelings. No M likes to think he's not viewed as "manly."

Personally I think it's due to a domineering mother who the M might say in retrospect about his upbringing, something to the effect of:

"If my mother ever caught me MBing into that sock in my bedroom she would have dropped two brass door knobs into her heavy duty wire Maidenform bra and flogged me unconscious about the head and shoulders, before shipping me off to a French monastery."

Back to taking charge of your own SL. Doesn't mean the Fs who yearn to be dominated won't eventually; once things get going, male aggression/testosterone kicks in with the right encouragement (ie, Oh, God." Flipping on all fours. "Do me from behind, NOW!" Grabbing the stiff member and steering JIC.) If he's worked up sufficiently he will want to pound that sweet stuff and growl, IMO.

Just requires the F losing the telepathic "I-want-sex-now-why-isn't he-noticing-me-wiggle-my butt-against-him-in-bed-and-pounce? I hate initiating/I shouldn't have to boo-hoo resentment, which, the M will pick up on subconsciously and unconscioiusly sabotage his own self-esteem and libido.

As to the first part, no, he won't understand what the butt wiggle means. "Hm, she must be dipping off into REM with that cute twitching."

As to the second: the undoubted gasp/audible huff and subsequent motionlessness after he doesn't respond to her telepathy will imperfectly be picked up by our obtuse dum-dum-man-brain, which acts like a notoriously slow-on-the draw- elderly narcoleptic night security guard:

"Zzzz. mmmmpf. Huh. What? Anybody there? Yawn. Lipsmack-lipsmack. Wait. Did I just miss something? Shrug. Guess not. Mmmpff. Snort Yawn...zzzzzz."

Worse, for the dysmorphic male, , somewhere deep inside his brain, a cell memory is triggered: "Uh-oh. I screwd up. Mommy says I'm a bad boy. Mommy is mad at me." And the self-esteem and libido (along with the penile glans) makes a hasty retreat like a turtle into its shell.

Of course, this is based on my own conjecture and absolutely no scientific fact. Then again, facts never slowed me down before, so why start now?

3) I am busy setting up a lemonade stand so I can buy a Barbie DreamCar so I don't have to borrow Red and White Corvettes or GI Joe jeeps from any stupidhead selfish boys anymore.

Well its about time. To be honest, I felt often irked by your posts on the few occasions I looked at this forum.

I had to fight to keep the king/father in me from stomping into your threads, snatching that dopamine-infused all-day lollipop from glassy drug-addled-eyed Rainbow Brite's sticky hand, pointing with a stern look:

"Go to your room. You're not getting this back until you've finished your math homework, young lady. NOW. There WILL be consequences."

4) All I said to BF was "It's your own fault if you try to play house with mean girls who don't even like babies and always say 'You be the Daddy'" Plus, everybody knows that if a big boy says "Let's play house. I'll be the baby." everybody is going to laugh at him -duh.

Good points, all. However, I think, like mine, his x had a certain lack of maturity that stems from refusing to break out of a princess mentality. Thing that sucks is, thanks to BF's overall leadership IMO, x now realizes the importance of "all-in" commitment in an R and is probably a great W to her new H. Can't kick himself for that one. Beyond his control. He is sooo much wiser now.

Hence my forced-upon hairshirt comments. Said to BB: Im not interested in hashing out my own stuff in his first thread post. Went unheeded. But, as I've found, is almost near Fing impossible to give input/advice to others without digging up your own ghastly putrified R corpse -- as I can well relate:

Bwwwahh! (throwing nose into elbow crook, turning head away from the stench)

I think you clearly pointed your lance in the direction of "ego-investment".

Yes, my lance has a mind of its own and gets me into trouble from time to time whenever I start pointing it around in different directions.

-Stigmata-

[MJontheMend]

I'll use my favorite case study as an example: Alpha Soldier Guy. He was all wolf while having sex. But minutes later, he would be bringing raw brownie batter (one of my favorites) into the bed so we could snuggle, watch a movie, spork, you get the idea. Granted he wasn't Mr Talkative. But he showed a softer side that made him totally hot, only because I knew he was already wolf. See what I mean? And he was never once arrogant or cocky. He didn't need to be. He was just confident.

I think BF would agree with you completely. Especially the line where you say that he could be soft because he was already wolf. The point BF is trying to make is that women won't care for men or find them attractive when they're soft and unable to be wolf, IOW, when they need it most. I think he's right and wrong. In the long run, nobody, male or female will be able to maintain attraction in a relationship under those conditions. In the short run, most reasonable loving people can and do cut others they love some slack UNLESS they are angry or resentful for other reasons.

[Stigmata]

Stig:
I catch any of you Fs doing this again and I'm gonna redden some bottoms.

Oooohhhhh..... Promise?

That reverse psychology crap doesn't work on me. Your insolence will cease once you realize I used to play #1 singles in tennis in H.S. And I actually HATED tennis. I just tried out in order to skip classes for sectionals and, whaddayaknow, I picked it up pretty quickly, not to mention I won most of my matches on cannon-shot aces. Forehand only passable; zero backhand ... so be careful what you wish for.

Then again, you just WOULD like that. Hm, hate to think I'd have to resort to one of those namby-pamby "time out" PC punishments on you Fs.

You kinda remind me of a Scarecrow..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Sorry... amusing myself.

Well that fits in nicely with your BF as Oz comment, now doesn't it, Dorothy?

BTW, I'm gonna send Cesar Milan to straighten you out, Miss Ruby slippers. He told me you have no idea what Toto is saying:

"Toto is not saying, 'there's no place like home, Senor Stigmata. He's telling her, 'I have yet to see Wizard 1, you crazy acid-dropping puta. I'm saying, 'I DON'T WANT TO GO HOME, our freaking entire house already got sucked up by a tornado! Let's get out of Dodge!" (of course, stemming from Ft. Dodge Kansas reference)

But I'll take your scarecrow comment. Makes sense after seeing all of you cackling F crows descending on BF's thread.

"Gawwwrrsh, where's muh brain?" (pulling open sack pants. "Oh, thar it is."

See what you've done? That's 2 double entendres in one day. I've reached my quota. No more. Beg all you want.

-Stigmata-

[Corri]

Stig:

That reverse psychology crap doesn't work on me.

Hm. I suppose I could volley. Well, actually, I KNOW I could volley (something very interesting, given enough time). Have you not been paying proper attention, or are you just trying throw BF a tad bit of support?

Then again, you just WOULD like that. Hm, hate to think I'd have to resort to one of those namby-pamby "time out" PC punishments on you Fs.

My goodness... you really ARE off your game. {Nose wiggle at the thought}

BTW, I'm gonna send Cesar Milan to straighten you out, Miss Ruby slippers. He told me you have no idea what Toto is saying:

"Toto is not saying, 'there's no place like home, Senor Stigmata. He's telling her, 'I have yet to see Wizard 1, you crazy acid-dropping puta. I'm saying, 'I DON'T WANT TO GO HOME, our freaking entire house already got sucked up by a tornado! Let's get out of Dodge!" (of course, stemming from Ft. Dodge Kansas reference)

You don't think I know that? Hence the reason for my lovely little song as I head on down the YBR AWAY from Oz, practicing my new Cha Cha moves I learned in Ballroom Dance Class. Toto is just fine, honey, trust me.

But I'll take your scarecrow comment. Makes sense after seeing all of you cackling F crows descending on BF's thread.

Oh, please, he loves every show off minute of it.

See what you've done? That's 2 double entendres in one day. I've reached my quota. No more. Beg all you want.

I never beg, deary. Not unless you want me to.

[MJontheMend]

Personally I think it's due to a domineering mother who the M might say in retrospect about his upbringing, something to the effect of:

"If my mother ever caught me MBing into that sock in my bedroom she would have dropped two brass door knobs into her heavy duty wire Maidenform bra and flogged me unconscious about the head and shoulders, before shipping me off to a French monastery."

Sure, blame the mother. LOL. I remember hanging out with a good fellow easy-going earth mother type friend when both of our sons were around 2 and it was like we'd look up from our coffee and gossip and say "I guess we ought to take the kids to the park. They've been sitting there playing with themselves for about an hour now. They must be bored."

Of course, in my sich, it was never that clear. My 2bx would tell me to be more submissive one week and more dominant the next. Maybe I'm wrong but I think a lot of guys will vibe more submissive if they're depressed or in a situation that renders them submissive outside of the sexual arena. The most dominant I ever remember my 2bx being was on an occasion where he had just quit a job and basically told his boss to f*ck-off. Anyways, the vast majority of our sex was of the "do me", do you" monkey-in-the-middle variety.

Just requires the F losing the telepathic "I-want-sex-now-why-isn't he-noticing-me-wiggle-my butt-against-him-in-bed-and-pounce? I hate initiating/I shouldn't have to boo-hoo resentment, which, the M will pick up on subconsciously and unconscioiusly sabotage his own self-esteem and libido.

You might not be reflecting on my sich but I assure you I initiated sex quite aggressively on occasion and was rejected. Everybody wants their partner to initiate sometimes. Most people prefer that the male initiates 2/3 of the time.

"Go to your room. You're not getting this back until you've finished your math homework, young lady. NOW. There WILL be consequences."

Okay. I'm going to go to my room and do a really fun math puzzle and then enter a coloring contest and if I win I will get a Barbie Dream Car with gold trim to match my new hoodie with the big gold zipper and then I will drive around town until I see GI Joe in his jeep next to me at a stoplight and then it will be little red-shoe to the fake pink plastic metal time, oh yeah.

[Stigmata]

Crud, LFL. Can't be too regular round here. Gossip is for you chickie-babies and my gay brethren.

Of course, it defeats the purpose when you ask me how I am. Means I have to respond, which I will, since I was raised to always be courteous to others -- though mother would probably raise an eyebrow to me responding to an F with "Lust" in her handle. (No, ma, I'm not into some pervy porn site. I know people who do burn in Hell for eternity.)(eye roll)

I'm glad you're sticking in there with H. I don't believe it would have been better if he WA for an OW. I think not having sex with you and having it with an OW would have been the ultimate insult and the dealbreaker for you. No way in Hades you'd get past that, from what I've seen from your swings.

I also believe OP don't walk away without a plausible reason. Something in him snapped from some kind of pressure he brought upon himself with respect to your R. I think imagining life w/o you and the kids as a family unit was a wake-up call he needed to step outside his own head and want to work on rebuilding your R -- this time by including his life partner, the big dummy.

Your OM would be an ego blow to any man. We all like to think our Fs would remain celibate esp. since we had no OW driving our actions. Not saying it's fair; just the way of the male ego/sense of possessiveness.

But that's a discussion for your thread and would mean I would have to post more. Egads.

Corri said:

Have you not been paying proper attention, or are you just trying throw BF a tad bit of support?

Both. I know what's going on and I stand by my HS comments. It is pure hubris to think one should have seen it all coming without admitting to a sizeable role in the outcome.

Simply: OP do not cheat because they are happy/content with you and the R.

.

I hate to admit this in my own sitch. At the same time, I am too biased therefore ID with a lot of his other comments as I feel my own bitterness arise and I probably will subsequently proffer comments that will come across as anti-female as well; as a matter of fact, count on it.

I could play devil's advocate for both sides if I so choose. I'm very capable that way.

But, as we like to say: Bros before Hos.
)I'm j/k Cheyenne. My head would look out of place mounted next to your elk and bear)

Hm, hate to think I'd have to resort to one of those namby-pamby "time out" PC punishments on you Fs.

My goodness... you really ARE off your game. {Nose wiggle at the thought}

Excellent. That's what I was going for: nose-wrinkling distaste. That's why it's called punishment. I can't have any of you Fs actually enjoying this self-same punishment.

Actually for you, it may be better punishment to have you walk into your large closet only to discover in horror I have taken a circular saw to the toes of all your pointy shoes.

See what you've done? That's 2 double entendres in one day. I've reached my quota. No more. Beg all you want.

I never beg, deary. Not unless you want me to.

Okay, now that's 3.

Shame on you. Bear-baiting at The Globe went out with the rising popularity of a young lad named Bill Shakespeare. I've been hibernating so I may get cranky. Careful, girl. Even capable Cheyenne would have a handful.

-Stigmata-

[/quote]

[Corri]

Stig:

I hate to admit this in my own sitch. At the same time, I am too biased therefore ID with a lot of his other comments as I feel my own bitterness arise and I probably will subsequently proffer comments that will come across as anti-female as well; as a matter of fact, count on it.

I grow weary on this, as I could, without a DOUBT, become very, very anti-man, and that did not start with the experiences of the xM. What is done, is done, and more the fool I if I don't LEARN something from it. So. Carpi Diem. Or some other lever or pulley, eh? We all have those forehead slamming 'fck me' moments in our lives. Bitterness? Best left to those who drink really shtty beer.

Actually for you, it may be better punishment to have you walk into your large closet only to discover in horror I have taken a circular saw to the toes of all your pointy shoes.

Hairdog would be mighty upset if you did that... though I daresay he'd just come in with a big ole spray can of paint and write 'MU' on the inside of my closet. As for punishment for Corri.... hmmmmm.... tap, tap, tap.... I suppose you could hound me about my book...

Shame on you. Bear-baiting at The Globe went out with the rising popularity of a young lad named Bill Shakespeare. I've been hibernating so I may get cranky. Careful, girl. Even capable Cheyenne would have a handful.

Bear baiting? ROTFLMAO. You're only indulging me... we both know it. Lovely bantering and all with you, especially at Xmas. Brings about good holiday cheer, a la BB style. Though, again, you appear off your game.

And YEZZZ, you have been hibernating and if you are cranky, welp... nothing that a good ole' ham slap wouldn't cure, I'm sure. tee hee. giggle. Oh my goodness... sorry j/k.

Gotta respond to Mo now, on her thread, about Lioness's and such.

Glad to know you are out there, alive and well, Stig. Hope everything is better than well for you. {Blow a kiss to you}

[Corri]

"Gawwwrrsh, where's muh brain?" (pulling open sack pants. "Oh, thar it is."

THIS is how I know you are off your game. That's Goofy, not Scarecrow. And there never WAS a wizard in Oz, just an illusion. And Dorothy was never lost.

[Stigmata]

Where the heck did you come from? Sigh. Another post to respond to.

Sure, blame the mother. LOL. I remember hanging out with a good fellow easy-going earth mother type friend when both of our sons were around 2 and it was like we'd look up from our coffee and gossip and say "I guess we ought to take the kids to the park. They've been sitting there playing with themselves for about an hour now. They must be bored."

Good show Mojo. Good to see some moms comfortable/unfazed with/by their sons' sexual exploration.

Of course, in my sich, it was never that clear. My 2bx would tell me to be more submissive one week and more dominant the next. Maybe I'm wrong but I think a lot of guys will vibe more submissive if they're depressed or in a situation that renders them submissive outside of the sexual arena. The most dominant I ever remember my 2bx being was on an occasion where he had just quit a job and basically told his boss to f*ck-off.

No, don't think you're wrong. Good observation. One way I fd up pretty bad was to just MB whenever I was super stressed/feeling depressed without thinking how that was affecting my biology -x's desireability ... cause it was quicker/less hassle and I was sometimes lazy/wiped out. Hence arrogantly assumed if x wanted it she can pull it out whenever she wanted or say gimme gimme gimme, wanna jump on your jimmy.

Of course, after reading the SSM posts and seeing the F's level of feeling invalidated from such behavior I was left mortified and regretful. Just assumed all Fs thought like Ms, ie, "if I want something, I speak up." That's how my simple brain works. You mean hers doesn't? scritchscritchscritch.

Course for my M compadres, that's no excuse for sucking/Fing OMs ccks on the sly while hiding massive resentment with a poker face.

The post-boss stuff is understandable. Unfortunately I think your STBex needed to get his juices flowing more often, possibbly via sweaty exercise. The fear from quitting a steady job, yelling at a boss drives adrenaline, amongst other chemicals, and topping you that way is a way to reassert control over his newly uncontrolled environment.

It's why a study showed that Ms walking across a scary suspension bridge to an F researcher on the other side called the F researcher nearly every time and often flirted on the phone after she told them to call her if they wished to talk about the experience. It turned them on at some level and she was the first face they saw.

The same instructions during a non fear-based task with the same F researcher did not yield the same responses. It had nothing to do with her looks either.

You might not be reflecting on my sich but I assure you I initiated sex quite aggressively on occasion and was rejected. Everybody wants their partner to initiate sometimes. Most people prefer that the male initiates 2/3 of the time.

No, wasn't reflecting on the Mojos. What most people don't know is the F initiates nearly 75% of the time; but neither party is privvy to the transaction. F monkeys actually go over to the Ms and lift them to their feet before presenting their rear ends when they're in heat. Humans it's more subtle. Since 93% of human communication is via body language the Ms often miss the cues but they're there ... and the Fs initiate them most of the time even if they don't realize it.

Mr. Mojo rejecting you wasn't about you, Mojo.

Actually, that's where I take issue with GP. Some of your convos with GP annoyed me, admittedly.

Mr. Mojo does not not like you, as GP suggested. Just the opposite. I would say he always loved you, in fact. Still does, I bet.

IMO he he does not like himself very much, if at all.

Your carefree way was at odds with his obvious self-loathing demeanor and he probably resented the fact that you could not feel what it was like to be so miserable. Hence his nasty comments to you. Reflexive lashing out to try and bring you down to his level and comfort him.

Misery and company sometimes do make good bedfellows -- that's why there's an amazingly entrenched saying about it.

In many ways it was symbiotic and a natural attraction. Your so-called cow's innate need to nurse a broken boy back to happy health if she can taps into the core of most Fs drive to nurture others. Think you more or less have said as much.

Whereas on his side, his lost surly boy needed a rescueing upbeat good-hearted F to maybe help him find his way out to like himself and be a purpose-driven man.

Of course, that's a btich to maintain attraction in that dynamic. But not impossible. I think things might have been different if STBex understood his own behavior via standing objectivley )as is possible) outside himself with observing ego instead of wallowing in his own perceived victim of life disempowerment.

I do think there's a chance he will realize what he's lost and change for him --not you.

Unfortunately at the regrettable expense of your near 20 year R, (which is nothing to sneeze at) you cannot do this for him, as you already know since you're a smart cookie.

So, while I believe all LTRs, outside of drugs/bad booze addiction/serious mental disorders, can survive with communication and patience, I also realize that you do not have time to wait around and bet your entire life savings on a 70-1 longshot at your local horse track ... especially when the entire outcome is dependent on an injured horse (no, I won't say "lame." I don't believe in cheap shots towards those in absentia.) and a suspect jockey.

-Stigmata-

PS. I have no problem jacking BF's thread without explanation. We're both big boys who julienned our puppies quite thoroughly and know it's all good.