I Was Almost A WAW....Still (Next Thread)

[Dom R]

I will also tell you that the male sex drive is so high, that if our love life sucks, the rest of the marriage can NOT make up for that. You have to remember that mens primary goals in marriage are to win your desire and your admiration. Companionship is NOT the goal for him.

Cemar.. you Dont Know That.

As Sandi said: I think most of your posts to her, are more about you, than her husband.

[Bagheera]

Greetings, Sandi;

I've been following your story with interest because for me, it represents where my own M could have gone if my wife and I had continued on the path we were on for another 20 years...if we even made it that far. I whole-heartedly applaud you for your resilience and willingness to stick with it, through thick and thin, and yet still maintain hope that the R is savable. My hat is off to you.

And I do see hope for you and your H in the story as you have posted it. For your part, you said it here, in your discussion with Dom R:

The "date night" thing....I don't know if I'm ready for that yet, but something fun without pressure sure would be nice. It would thrill me for him to do that.

where you clearly indicate that you would still love to improve the emotional connection between yourself and your H. For your H's part, you described it here, when you were first telling your story last summer:

I asked him last night what he would have done if I had come in one night and started loving all over him and he said he would have ate it up.

where he clearly indicated that he would still love to improve the physical connection between himself and you.

You both still fervently want to have your own needs for love and companionship met by your spouse, but remain stuck in the infamous marriage Catch-22 that Michele and other authors describe. Namely (and generally), that in order for most men to feel the desire to actively pursue an emotional connection with their mate, they must first have their needs for a physical connection met; and in order for most women to feel the desire to actively pursue a physical connection with their mate, they must first have their needs for an emotional connection met. You both yearn to have your own connection needs met, but you are both weighed down by 40 years of anger and resentment, such that even thinking about meeting the connection needs of the other is difficult to do. But the desire for each other is still there, and with that, there is much hope.

The path to getting un-stuck and working toward a better relationship is long and arduous: one that my wife and myself are currently on, following 22 years of unhappiness and resentment. I tend to think of this path in four stages:

(1) Each partner must recognize that there is still hope within each of you, a real desire to improve the R with each other. I can see it in the posts you have made: it's there, believe me.

(2) Each partner must recognize and accept the valid love / `connection' needs of the other. For the man, this means recognizing the importance of (for example) sharing housework and other responsibilities, spending quality time together as a family and couple, and continuing to romantically court your mate no matter how long you've been together; that is, actively pursuing an emotional connection with your wife. For the woman this means recognizing the importance of (for example) a caress, a kiss, and close sexual intimacy; that is, actively pursuing a physical connection with your husband. It's not about doing the stuff on the honey-do list in order to get your wife to turn-on to you. It's not about turning-on to your husband in order to get him to do the stuff on the honey-do list. It's about understanding and meeting the valid love needs of the other, and having your own love needs met in return.

(3) Each partner must take small, measurable, and sustainable steps toward meeting the love / `connection' needs of the other: making slow, steady progress in building trust and improving the relationship. There is a LOT of posts and articles about goal-setting on this site and in the books, so I won't say more beyond applauding Dom R's efforts to help you find realistic and sustainable goals.

(4) Each of you must work diligently at getting past the Resentment Barrier. This means (a) not setting any goals in step (3) that would produce further resentment within yourself -- your marriage has enough baggage without producing more, (b) recognizing that your mate may have a hard time (initially, at least) at responding positively to your own gestures at making things better -- they have a mountain of their own resentment to sort through, so give them some time and be patient, and (c) don't be surprised at and learn how to work past your own feelings of resentment -- it was just such old feelings that prompted me to post here.

For example, let's say your H goes out and starts cleaning up that junked-up back yard. It's on your list, and he's out there working on it, and you'd think you'd be happy and grateful at his effort. But I can guarantee that you'll also have feelings of doubt ("He may be doing this now, but it won't stay cleaned up. It'll be just as junked-up again in a few months.") and resentment ("Why in God's green earth has it taken him this stinking long to get to this?! I've been bringing it up for years, and only NOW he does something about it!"). And no, I'm not trying to pick on you here, Sandi, I just know your situation better than your husband's for selecting an example. The point is, even if you are both taking steps toward rebuilding your R, you BOTH have many years worth of anger and resentment to work through at the same time -- it's a long, slow process, and often of the two-steps-forward-one-step-back variety.

I've rambled on long enough, me thinks. The point of this post is: there's still visible hope for you and your husband, and a process is in place for each of you getting what you want out of the relationship. So chin-up, girl, and happy holidays! We're cheering for you.

Best regards,

-- Bagheera

[ann25]

Sandi,

i think you are taking a much needed break, but just wanted to say hi!! If you are around, just want you to know that i'm thinking about and praying for you!

ann

[sandi2]

I had an unexpected early Christmas present.....one I did not want at all. The postman brought a certified letter from the city stating that we had 7 days from today to get the unused vehicles removed from our yard. There was a picture inside where somebody had taken a snapshot of our back yard. We have a city ordinance about unused vehicles in a homeowner's yard. But, I'm surprised they did not fine us for all the "junk". But this is Saturday and my H is out of town at a funeral, tomorrow is Sunday, then Christams Eve and Christmas Day....that leaves two days. He has them tied up with a bank note as collateral, so we have to keep them. I don't know what we are going to do. I cried my eyes out, but when he came home, I showed the letter to him and he just grinned and threw it over on the table. I tried to talk to him, but he just said, "Well, what was he suppose to do about it?" They we charge $50-$200 a day until it is removed! He asked me what I expected him to do and I told him I expected him to keep our back yard looking like the rest of the neighbors kept theirs looking. So, he fell asleep and is taking a nap!

I need you all to pray for me. I don't want to ruin anyone's Christmas, but, I am about at my wit's end. I told him right before he took his nap, that I was just fed up with all of it. So, that shows how worried he is about any of it.

I wasn't going to come back to the board until after Christmas, but I need the prayers. I'm not feeling in a good place at all. I thought the AD med was going to help there for a few days, but, I have not felt good since those three days. I am about to decide to tell the doctor it's not worth the side effects if it isn't going to help me.

[Kettricken]

(((Sandi))) -- sorry you're having such a rough time ....

[Dom R]

sorry to hear that your husband is being an ass, Sandi.

There are places that resell cars, and give you "quick quotes" on the value they would pay you.

May I suggest that you call one of those places to come over asap, and give you a quote on them. Then calculate specifically what day all the fines the city will charge, will add up to cost you more than selling them.

Point that out to your husband, and tell him that he has until that day to do something about it, or sell them.

[sandi2]

Dom and the rest of you,

I'm so humiliated to think our neighbors turned us in to the City, but I don't blame them. There have been several young guys to come by and ask about buying the vehicles, but my H has them tied up with other stuff in one hugh bank loan and can't sell them and get the title until the entire loan is paid off (if I understand it correctly). I'm just so upset and embarrased and it doesn't seem to bother him at all. I reminded him that I have begged, pleaded, & bitched about the back yard and he knows how unhappy I am about it, and yet he has done nothing to change it. I don't know where we could take them other than to pay rent somewhere (which will be more expense).

I don't think I mentioned that my GS brought home a artic wolf dog that is huge and we had to get a pen for him, which he has already outgrown, but I don't want him back there.....it's just another eye sore. B/c my h put a tarp half-way over the top of the cage and metal sheet pieces around the sides to help knock off some of the rain and cold weather. We don't have a fenced in back yard and my H is wanting to do that.....for the dog. But, we don't have the money to do it. I don't want the dog here! He's to big, too rough, and he will keep everything in a worse mess. We can't even play with him without getting our arms clawed. It's just another item and problem that has been added to the "junky" back yard. The swimming pool and slide he bought last summer for the GD that never did work properly and finally was wadded up and left laying there......The second handed motor boat he bought that didn't even run that has been parked out back for about 4 years now and never moved from its spot......I could go on and on about the stuff that is back there that he has brought home that is laying there exposed to the neighborhood. And we live on a cornor lot where people drive by and see all that crap piled up back there. I am not kidding when I say we have the worst yard in the neighborhood, and that letter proved it today! What can I do?

Also, our names came out in the local paper that we had not paid our personal taxes on time, and everyone at the office reads all of that. Of course it embarrases me, but it doesn't seem to bother him at all.....and I've asked him to please make sure that it gets paid on time so I don't have to be embarrased at work.

And, like I've told you all before, here it is again, the end of the year and he hasn't gotten the tax infomation together for 2006. I am just so sick of all of it I could scream. It is 4:15 a.m. on Sunday morning and I've been up all night long. How can I go to church and pretend all is well in our home when I feel like just saying, "forget it"! In fact, I told my H I was fed up with it all. Of course, he never made a reply to what I said.

I should be celebrating Christmas and not worried to death about all this crap! But I tell you this b/c I need to vent, but also b/c when you, my friends, in well meaning attempts, tell me to do things to meet his needs, etc., but it is something like this that always seems to be hitting me in the face. It goes back to that daily sandpaper rubbing away the skin and down into the raw nerves.

God, I just need prayer so badly. I hate my life the way it is. I confess that I have backslid in even trying to work in the R for weeks. I haven't done anything. I can't even seem to read any of my books right now. I had intentions of setting the goals and doing the "assignments", etc. but my "will" just gave way. It all got to be so "weary" for me. I know the attitude showed up in my posts and I was on the verge of just giving up when I said I needed to take a break from the board. I just couldn't deal with it at the time. It sounded like all I was doing was giving excuses, and I guess I was b/c ................b/c I don't know why. I suppose I didn't want too badly enough. When I would get home from work.....I shut down physically, mentally,emotionally, and more or less crashed for the rest of the night.

I have been here for hours going back over my thread and reading all the good advice people gave me, hoping it would restore something inside of my heart. You all have been friends to me and I appreciate it.

I don't know what I'm going to do. I feel so depressed and the medication is doing abosoluly nothing for me. I am suppose to see the doctor next week and he will want to raise the dosage to 150 mg and I don't know if I want to keep taking it or get off of it or try something else. I just feel like I'm a mess and my life is a mess.

Please forgive me for the pity party.

[Lillieperl]

sandi, it seems to me that you're going to have to take some of these things into your own hands. Like the taxes. Can you get the info together yourself? The dog? Put an ad in the paper, or contact a local animal shelter. As for the cars, take it upon yourself to find out what their status is and take action.

You're being driven nuts because you're keeping yourself powerless, waiting for your H to do the things to make you feel comfortable. If something bugs the crap out of you, and the other person is not doing what it takes, what other option do you have? Take action yourself. It's your house, too.

Years ago, I lived with a guy who took a very casual attitude toward bills. He usually didn't pay them until he got the second or third notice. I always went to pay our rent in person on the day or the day before it was due. It was very important to me that the rent be paid on time. One day, on the day the rent was due, I just could not make it, so I asked him to please pay it that day. Did he? NO. Of course not. He didn't see what the big deal was. If I wanted it taken care of IN THE WAY I WANTED I had to do it myself.

The alternative is truly to blind yourself to the eyesores, and just let him handle it his way-- or not.

But eating yourself up because he isn't doing what you want in your way (granted, your way is the grown-up responsible way) cannot continue for long. Do what works! If what you're doing isn't working to bring you comfort and sanity, do something different, kwim?

Don't worry about a "pity party," just get crackin!!

[sandi2]

Dear Lillieperl, It's more complicated than I know how to explain without repeating what I've already said in previous posts. But knowing you care means so much to me. It is about to drive me out of my own home b/c of this goes on and on all the time. It is one of those things that my parents were so opposite about in their lives and taught me to be that way....on the other hand, my H isn't anything like they were or I am. You would think after all these years that I would get use to it, but it just grinds against my nerves and I can't seem to relax about it. The dog isn't ours....it's our GS, but as soon as he gets back home (he's out of town), I'm going to talk to him about finding another place for his dog. The problem is, my H has gotten so attached to the dog, I don't know if he will agree to it. I've tried to explain how the children wouldn't be able to play with the dog and how it would keep everything destroyed, but he won't listen. I'm sorry for going on and on about this when there are people having such more serious problems than I am......but I'm trying to keep it together to get through Christmas without ruining it for everybody else. I can't see my H doing his income taxes and cleaning the yard all before the time limit. I can help on part of the taxes, which I already have that part done, but where his "employment" stuff is concerned....he has to do that. I don't believe the bank will release the cars to be sold since it is tied up in with another loan, at least that is what my H tells me. So, it seems we are stuck in a very bad situation.

Thanks for caring. I need it very much right now.

[Dom R]

Sandi,
i care too. I'm a guy, so I usually show that, by looking for solutions

is the bank loan in both your names, or just his?
If it's in both your names, you could go to the bank and ask them for alternatives, or look at refinancing.

even if it isnt... you could still probably ask.
Do you own your house, and is there equity in it? if so, there's always the option of converting all that stuff into a home loan.