Well, fellow self-daters, I have just returned from dinner out with my family. D13 phoned me and said that they were planning to go out to a restaurant for dinner and wondered whether I would like to come. Can I say no to my kids? No way! During dinner I made no attempt at small talk with W, that never goes very far anyway so I thought "it's 180 time". If she wants to initiate any kind of personal interaction with me she can do so.W was personable and that's all I can ask for. We all did have a pleasant evening, it's always so nice to feel like a family, even if we are one f@cked up family!