GGG- What it means to me.

[Kettricken]

I thought of you when I read an essay in O magazine a while back that said that when people project simple but sincere non-sexual interest they often are read as signaling sexual interest because the body language is the same. For instance, you might lean in because you are fascinated by what some guy is saying but he might read it as "I am open to being physically close to you."

This may be a gigantic digression, but IMHO this assessment is a subtle but real misrepresentation. There's a reason the body language is the same. At least in my experience, sincere interest isn't all that far removed from sexual interest. I find fascinating people or people talking about fascinating things *very* sexually attractive. Not "Oh my god I'm going to rip your clothes off/take me now" sexually attractive, but the antennae do vibrate. This is *hugely* different from sexual *intent* and maybe that's the point the article was trying to make.

Maybe I'm just wired up weird ... but I find I can't keep my sexual attraction in a little watertight compartment separate from my intellectual attraction or emotional attraction or aesthetic attraction. There's a lot of overlap. Knowing that this is so and accepting it as just the way I swing allows me to put sensible fences in place without feeling like some kind of uber-whore.

[Burgbud]

(SG) We can't fluidly switch between wife/mother/wild lover and most men can't either. If "wolf" is the dominant persona they settle on please only approach if you're in it for the thrill of the hunt/chase, and keep any straggling bunnies at home well out of sight.

I undestand you said "most", but I still gotta disagree. I'm living proof that a Nice Guy can be trained (though the "training" is more like "hinting" or "giving permission") to be a sexual wolf and still remain Nice Guy outside the bedroom (much to said Nice Guy's detriment). There's no shortage of Nice Guys and I don't think I'm any kind of one-off exception.

[MJontheMend]

We can't fluidly switch between wife/mother/wild lover and most men can't either. If "wolf" is the dominant persona they settle on please only approach if you're in it for the thrill of the hunt/chase, and keep any straggling bunnies at home well out of sight.

I agree with you perfectly and that is why I am trying to achieve the difficult task of becoming one of the rare people who can fluidly switch roles/animals. Another way of saying it is I am trying to integrate my personality in a self-aware fashion. In my dating experience thus far, I have found that most intelligent, experienced middle-aged men are well aware of their own tendencies towards some variety of Madonna/Whore syndrome or choosing to mate as Rat or Vole and the down side of this tendency in terms of relationships. For instance, GP and I had a conversation about the difference between "the slut" and "my slut" . He had probably a bajillion wolf encounters when he was a young bass player in the 1970s but they were interspersed with romantic GF/BF relationships. When he was in his early 20s he feel in love with a young ambitious med student who was just using him for sex and that really changed his take on relationships and female sexuality. One of the reasons he didn't want to rush into being sexual with me is that he saw me as potentially being like that woman. However, I should note that he definitely courted me like a vole rather than a rat. He wanted to hold hands with me at the movies more than he wanted to have sex with me (although he definitely did want to have sex with me-lol). Also, you might recall that Teddy was a man who made felt for a hobby and taught elementary school. Hardly your stereotypical wolf-on-the-prowl-type. NG was a semi-famous "scenester" and his semi-fame was for a sexy reason but I hid my bunny from him more than he hid his puppy dog from me. For instance, I'm not going to even tell you my reply on the occasion he told me he liked cuddling with me even more than having sex with me.

I really don't see myself as any kind of victim in any of my recent encounters/relationships. I've been very validation-seeking in different ways and also very confused and also very blind about the ways in which I am not ready for certain things until I hit an unexpected wall. My baby sister told me that I shouldn't want to date anybody who wants to date me now because anybody who wants to date somebody less than a year out of a nearly 20 year marriage, well, they aren't really too careful.

IOW, I am "dating" not hanging out in biker bars looking to get hit on by an attractive wolf. I'm really, really not interested in men who vibe like BF. However, I have to at least find the grinning lion in a man (located somewhere between wolf and st.bernard with a touch of monkey), if not the leering wolf, in order to be sexually interested. IOW, I am trying to let men play me bunny at least as much as I play them monkey and I am also trying to be lioness enough to earn/give respect and keep the cow on a bit of a reducing diet and give her the occasional shot of that milk-drying hormone when necessary- lol.

Anyways, my theory is that if I can be balanced, fluid and integrated then it's not even necesarily the case that I have to find some guy who is too, although it would help, because people naturally vibe in response to your vibe if your vibe is honest.

[MJontheMend]

I undestand you said "most", but I still gotta disagree. I'm living proof that a Nice Guy can be trained (though the "training" is more like "hinting" or "giving permission") to be a sexual wolf and still remain Nice Guy outside the bedroom (much to said Nice Guy's detriment). There's no shortage of Nice Guys and I don't think I'm any kind of one-off exception.

Right. You are a middle-aged, intelligent, experienced, self-aware man just like the guys that I date and therefore, just like me, you are thinking about how to overcome whatever FOO or cultural issues or even chemical tendencies previously informed your behavior in relation to women and do "better" in future relationships. However, it's hard as heck, isn't it? Christ, I spent hour upon hour talking about relationships and why they succeed/fail with GP and still we fell into a hole/hit a wall, although it might have been unavoidable.