All Hope is lost/Help - Part 2

[saffie]

Eve,

How well does the person you showed the card to know your H?

I have read and reread your H's message and I think that you could read it in lots of ways and so I think it is best not to analyse it and take it at face value. Your H cared enough to acknowledge your anniversary - if he really wanted to kick you to touch he could have taken this opportunity to ignore something you had expressed had meaning to you.

He obviously cares for you and he is obviously wants to be on good terms with you. More than that I don't think you can tell. I suspect your H doesn't know what he wants at the moment - he acknowledges in his note that he is learning and changing; I expect he is in a state of flux.

the continual contact IMHO comes from him feeling guilty for hurting you. Whether that is good or bad I don't know but you are obviously very important to him and that must be good.

Don't let what your work friend said to you get you down and affect your PMA. You need to be as up beat and positive as possible with the ski holiday coming up. Have you got things other than decorating planned whilst they are away? can you do something you wouldn't usually be able to - have a day at a spa or anything? Do somthing to pamper yourself.

By the way, the fact that your H tried to get you put on the holiday I thing is very positive - I'm just sorry he wasn't able to sort it out.

I'm sorry I didn't get to email you back before I thought you would have left work but you have my phone numbers if you want a chat.

(((((((HUGS)))))))

Saffie

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Dis,

Cato3 said it well as have others. Don't over read, you're driving yourself crazy. If you send the letter, and a lot of it was fine and honest, lose the part about him not acting like he's separated. Sorry to say, but we don't know how he's acting when he's not around you. Also lose the comments about how the week was so hard "(at least for you") because it's sarcastic and unecessary. Make sense? The thing is, YOU need to act as if you are separated and moving on. For so many reasons. Remember above all else that you are modelling how to handle deep blows to the heart, for your children. Be strong, for your pain is not fatal nor is it eternal.

He may feel he needs to break in the single life gently, easing off family like an addiction. Only his "freedom" and its' cost will bring him around, if that. Let him have the holiday without you. Believe me, it won't be the same and he'll wish you were there at least some of the time. IF they call then that is when you'll be the fun woman they miss. Let him see the boys miss their mother. No one is unmoved by that. Don't complain about it or play the pity party or try to guilt him. Most men resent the hell out of guilt inducers. Let him go, or at least, act as if you are. You have no choice right now. The best thing to do and the thing most likely to bring him back, is to move forward in your life making the most of it, as if he is gone off to South America for 3 years and is unreachable. WHen he calls you, stay focussed on the co-parenting and the business R, b/c that's all he says he wants.

I think his note was heart felt and that while he wants to be single, to find something "more", he knows you're a good woman and he does care for you. These are GOOD things, not bad. Be "grateful" even for the 1% of what he says or does that is kind/sweet, like the flowers. As my DB coach said "Applaud loudly for that 1%" even if it's the most minimal thing. Lose all expectations....

Give him time and space and work on yourself. Good luck,
j-

[Evie]

Thankyou Saffie & 25 yrs

I hear what you saying: to back off, stop analysing every little bit of communication, to slow down and have patience. I know im driving myself crazy, it's so hard not to. I have always over reacted, i'm trying though. Apart from a couple of back slides, i think on the whole i'm doing ok?, H sees me upbeat and listening and caring and getting on with things. Maybe he doesn't but my attitude around him is a lot better. I live in hope, that is what keeps me upbeat, thats the only way for now that I can cope.

I think my melt down this week was b/c H was constantly contacting me and I couldn't cope with it, I felt I had no breathing space.

However, I didn't send the letter in the end. My 24 hr rule and his words in his Anniversary card stopped me. I wanted to sleep on it. I felt he was trying to reach out to me so I emailed him and asked him what he ment by some of the things he had written in the card. His reply was:

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I have put so much effort, time in to work to earn money which at the end of the day is not as important as we all think.



I have done it at the expense of my family at the cost of my family



I forced you to go to work when I now realise you wanted to be with the boys and should have been with boys



I hate what I have become - I hate every thing (name of best friend)is and I don't want to be like it any more.



The most valuable thing we have is time, however none of us know just how much time we have left.



The Boys are growing up fast and when I think back about the girls I didn't spend hardly any time with them because I was working all the time chasing what I thought was the most important thing - A bigger house, better cars, more holidays. I now realise the most important thing is your family.


My life style will change in time - I will be changing the way I work



All the above is what I have learnt, its what I've come to realize. I've realized that I have sacrifised my family for work for my job. There is no work life balance here - its all work.


Hope this helps in explaining my words

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I felt really sad reading it, I could tell he was sad. That is teh most he has said to me in the last couple of years. In a later email to me he said it had taken 2 months to realise what he had just written.

My email in reply was:


Yes it does, thank you.

Thank you for telling me, it helps. I understand what you are saying and totally respect you. I know things have not been easy for you, you did your best and you did what you thought was right. You are not entirely to blame babes, I must take some responsibility for my behaviour over the last couple of years. I felt my life change when I became pregnant with x. I too have learnt a lot from been separated, I've learnt a lot about you, about myself and also what is important to me also. It isn't money or a big house; it's a simpler life with quality time for my husband and family.

Can we meet to talk? If you are not ready I will totally respect that you don't want to. Some things are easier to say in emails, others thing are not.

Either way, if you ever need me, you know where I am, I'll be there for you.

I love you

x

i added that we could just go out to enjoy dinner as friends and not neccesarily talk, his reply was after the xmas festivities - maybe.

I saw him later when he collected boys for the night, i was dressed up ready to go out and i know he noticed. I had a text off him while i was out. He knows now that if i'm out i'll reply when i get back home, don't know if thats a way of checking what time i'm coming home or not?

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At the time i felt he needed to hear those things, I don't know if i've pursued too much, yes probably, another back slide, another lesson learnt, at teh time it felt right, but now on reflection not so sure. He'll ask if he wants to, right?

I'll back off again now and let him enjoy his holiday without the guilt, I am a lot calmer now than at the beginning of the week, another lesson learnt, I hope to move on and become stronger again.

I love him and miss him.

EVE

xxxx

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Dis,

Here comes what we Yanks call a "2 x 4", and I could be wrong, but get ready...

You are pursuing, again. He said his peace and all you had to do was say "thanks, I've learned a lot too." End of story. Why invite him out to "talk" more R talk when he just poured out more to you than he has in years? NO R TALK FROM YOU....

Why say it's okay/you'll "respect" it if he isn't ready??? Of course it's okay as you have no control over that, and guess what? HE IS NOT READY OR HE"D BE HOME BY NOW...please, please, every time you make some progress you suck the life out of it. Let him be. He'll reach out to you if and when the time comes. Understand this if you understand nothing else, IMHO....rushing and pushing can ONLY hurt or be neutral in terms of changing things between an LBSer and a WAS. Taking your time and backing off just helps, or possibly has no effect. I can't see ANY benefit and ONLY HARM by you grabbing and yanking him back the second he looks your way. OMG, please, there are good things he's realizing but you have to just let him figure this out without nodding and saying you feel the same, etc and then asking him out...LOSING ALL EXPECTATIONS means no invites to him other than the minimum "co-parent" ones. He said he only wants a professional relationship with you, and a parental partner relationship. He also said he wants to be friends someday. For now, take those words at face value. Deal with him ONLY as a co-parent and business partner and maybe someday long from now, as a friend.
Let him see you with NEW behaviors, 180s, etc. Take a class, start a physical activity you've never done, or something different and new for YOU...

That doesn't mean you don't listen to him if he's really digging deep, but otherwise, just be too busy for small talk and end the phone calls before he does. And don't make any calls to him unless it's urgent regarding the kids, because they can call him with everything else. You can email him business matters. There's little reason for you to call him at this time, let alone invite him to the home except when he's picking up the kids AND initiates contact with you, IF you feel like it. Frankly, I'd hold off with the possible exception of Christmas Eve or morning IF that's something you guys can handle. Then, if it happens, focus on the KIDS...Not him or how he's looking at you or what he says or eats, etc.

You could tell him, BRIEFLY, that he's making it harder for you to move on with all the contact. To keep it limited to the scope of what he says he wants with you, which is not marriage. Thank him for helping you with that and end the note. Nothing mean or punitive. Just self respect and protection. And a signal...to him and you.

I know you miss him and this is the holiday time. I have been where you are. Remember that in a way you're waiting for his love to resurface fully, but when you start to see it under the "water", you grab at it and he dives back down...Let him swim to you, let him choose, let him be the man, if you know what I mean. Can you trust that the love he once had is still there? If it is, it'll resurface if you let it. If it isn't, then you're better off knowing now than 5 years from now. You cannot MAKE him love you. But you know this.

I hope this helps you. Can you give yourself a timeline for backing off, such as NO invites for one month? (I know, I know, you believe you "HAVE" to invite him every Sunday, etc....but you don't have to). It just seems you're taking the scraps he's sending you, which is by his own admission, all he has been giving your family for years; leftovers of his energy and love after his "important work" used up his time...
You deserved better. He knows it. Now, act like it. Kind, listening like a lover if he calls, but without ANY expectations or invites or guilting or neediness or clinging and NO telling him you love him or miss him, etc. That is clinging and needy by definition. And be HAPPY and upbeat and a Woman Only A Fool Would Leave...you can do this.
j-

[Evie]

Thanks 25yrsmlc,

That was definately food for thought and has given me plenty to think about for the past week.

There was a few things that hit home, but the one that has made me sit up for attention was when you said i deserve better than his left over energy. Your so right.

I guess i'm learning the hard way!!

What did you do when you were in my position, did it work?

X Eve

[Jen_Jam]

Just a quick 2p's worth - you are sympathising with him. Don't. He made his bed, it's up to him to get himself out of it again!

i used to sympathise with my H, then I got fed up and realised he progressed much quicker when I turned to him and said "i hear you, what do you think YOU are going to do to get YOURSELF out of it?" no offer to help, no sympathies, no "i am here if you need me" cos I wasn't there - I was out having fun. I let him sit in his wet nappy all by himself.

OK - rant over, sorry if it's short and missing the point, have to dash off in 2 mins

[Evie]

Jen_Jam,

Thats for your input. 2p's worth, I like it....

I feel like a real wet blanket. I hope I haven't back slid too much?

I have really learnt alot from last week and will definately be much stronger from now on. I did feel really sorry for him as you said. I felt I couldn't be hard on him when he was trying to reach out to me. I now realise i'll do more harm than good. Imagine if we didn't have this board with good friends to point out our mistakes.

H is away on holiday this week. I spoke briefly to him yesterday afternoon and too S2. S1 was out playing, so I didn't expect to hear from them again last night. Now if it was me, I would call once or text a message and leave it at that if the recipicant didn't pick up, but not H! I was out last night (as I am every night this week, GAL!!). As i have said before, I think H now realises when i am out b/c he will continually call until I answer, well last night I couldn't turn phone off b/c D was out and needed to let me know when she wanted to be picked up, in the meantime H called me 4 times and texted me 3!!! I know it was S1 wanting to talk to me, but sometimes I just feel like they expect me to there at their beck and call. I didn't answer the calls, just sent a text asking what the problem was, were the boys ok? H replied said S1 wanted to speak to me could he call? I sent a text saying, I couldn't talk now and would speak in the morning. I was in the a restuarant with a friend, goodness knows what she thought. She did say she thought he was a bit dependant on me?

To be honest his constant contact is pushing me away, he is the one sending mixed signals and becoming needy as I see it. When we first met, he did all the chasing and the pursuing and I let him... 25yrs is right, I don't want the left over scraps, I don't want my old marriage or the way we both were.

Jen - How quickly or what response did you get from H when you did the lack of sympathy? Was he reaching out to you as well?

I don't want to play mind games, that doesn't work for me but I hope I have gained some control back this week, I'll get through xmas ok. It's my B'day next week, so i'm just focusing on that for now and new year at my SIL & BIL's (H's brother). BIL phoned H and said that the boys and myself were going there for NY eve, would he like to come as well as he would be most welcome. H said he would let them know. To be honest I thought he would have plans (he may well have), but I don't want him there on NY. It would be crisis time again if he were to come. Cross that bridge nearer the time, b/c I don't think he will come.

X Eve

[25yearsmlc]

Dis
Too tired to post well. But what about saying "Call me after 10pm" or Not before 9 am, or setting some boundary that allows you a breather...and maybe even a life of your own?. The SINGLE advantage to his having the kids is you getting some "me" time and you have to take advantage of that. And that does NOT include his calling to interrupt, at HIS leisure-- notice. Come up with agreed upon times. the kids can call to say good night, between 9 and 9:30 or whatever 30 min time works for YOU and the Kids. Don't let it be more than a 30 minute window b/c you have the right to take a bath uninterrupted, or to converse with an adult that way. And kids like the structure of knowing when they're going to speak to you and they can save up things to tell you so that you don't have the long awkward silences kids have when they forgot what they wanted to say and you sit there, with your evening interrupted without really knowing if there's a game going on and your kids are pawns...

Remember what it might be like for HIM when YOU have the kids. How often do you call him? Do you text him repeatedly and get mad when he doesn't respond? Don't.
I get the feeling he's calling the shots, figuratively and literally.

Answer a text once with "I'm fine and safe and will call the kids at the agreed upon time." He can text with an emergency. Otherwise, stick to the plan. Enforce it, if only b/c you NEED to know you have some time of your own. We all do. And he needs to see that the limitations HE placed on your M, are also limits on HIM, not just you and your expecation levels going down the tubes. Start lowering his expectations of what he is "entitled to" from you, given...:"the givens" he gave you.
Make sense? There are more forward steps than backslides, so hold those backslides to a minimum and LOSE expecations so that you won't backslide. He has most of the work to do now, as far as the R/M is concerned. You need to work on YOU and GAL....good for you...you go girl!
j-

[Evie]

J

Wow you are the answer to my prayers, what useful advice, why didn't i think of that?

Just to let you know, I never text him (only in reply to his, although this week I haven't responded at all to his texts) - and the boys never call him! He sees the boys every morning and he calls them mostly, if they want to call him S1 has all of h's contact numbers written down in a book and he is allowed by H to call anytime he wants, which by the way is not so often now.

I have just sent a one off text to H and outlined the times that suit me for him to call me for the remander of his holiday and then when he gets home.

He has just replied and asked me why i'm being so formal? He's asked me if i've met someone else and if i have then its not a problem??

When i was on the phone to H this morning the cat bit me, I shoved him away and said 'stop it', H must have heard this b/c he's just asked if anyone was in bed with me??? What the hell does he take me for? I'm really upset about what he's just said but more upset that he said 'it's not a problem', what does that mean? does it mean he can feel less guilty if he does have ow or its ok with him b/c he's done with us? Or if there are any positives could it mean that he may be worried that I am apparently moving on?

Any thoughts welcome.

X Eve

I feel really down now.

[Evie]

Update,

H text me again and said we would need to discuss the house and finances if i was seeing om?? i texted him back and told how hurt I am by his comment, it was only the cat as i have said and that i'm was only trying to agree some times that I knew the boys would be able to catch me instead of calling and mising me. He's well angry. I've not being as predictable this week you see. I think he may have tried to contact me at work a lot and with christmas lunches and a day of sick i've not been at my desk so much. He's asked me twice if i'm at work ALL of this week and i've said yes.