well, all hell broke loose, it is over and done

[cat03]

thanks Atlas :), he is an officer so I cant take the gun away. I think he is not a danger to himself anymore, though he is still a mess. It just happens today he had a physical done, thank heavens, and got the std tests done, he's about 20lbs under weight--it never fails, whenever he is with ow he looses an incredible amount, and he can't afford to loose a gram, he is so tall.

Its so sad, what he is feeling now is what needed to happen the second time I found out about the A, he truly is repentant, he truly is sorry, not for getting caught and because his fun is over, but sorry he risked what is most dear for a woman a shade above a prostitute.
I actually see guilt, he tells me with real sorrow in his face how sorry he is, for you who've been with me since last year, you'll remember he never really appologized, neither this past summer when I found out about her, he was just flustered and riled up. If only he'd been repentant sooner...this wouldnt' be happening. I think he is mostly upset because he sees it might be too late, that now that he actually is sorry and repentant about the damage he has done to us but this time I am not waiting with open arms like the first time.

He's never showed this much emotion, at all, a good deal of his grief is the fact that he is totally broken and has no idea what to do or if the pain will ever end. I console him some, but at a distance, he needs this to sink in, to understand what he is about to loose.

We will be going to his T at 1, pray for us and keep us in your thoughts, I'm at work right now. Thanks)))))))))

[runningoutoftime]

Hummmm..... if he's so sorry and repentant at this time, why wasn't he sorry and repentant about misrepresenting himself and doing something he knew would profoundly hurt you even more than than you've already been hurt? Wouldn't he have stopped earlier if those had been his feelings? It sounds to me like he's only stopping (?) because he got caught one more time. Also, if he feels this way because he's about to lose you, does that mean this is the only way to keep him from straying? Does it mean you have to always keep one foot out the door?

I think your husband probably does feel very badly, but the situation reminds me of an alcoholic who can't quit and has to sneak a drink. People like this do feel extremely sorry. They vow to quit and have every intention. But sometimes they can't.

I pray you stay strong and love yourself. Never let happiness be dependent on others.

[LoginName]

Cat,
I'm so sorry for you. I'm sorry for him too, but not much.

So much to say, so much to think about. You seem to be doing well. When I read your first post, I wished I could call you right away, even though it was a day late.

You're kids will be OK. You'll protect them.

What runningoutoftime's post suggests to me is the idea of co-dependancy. I don't think you're like that, but it's something to be aware of.

Question: He's sorry, he doesn't want to lose you. Does he love you yet? Have those feelings returned?

I'd advise not closing the door completely. D takes time anyway. But if you can manage separation, I think it would be good for both of you.

another question, How do you feel about him? Any love left?

You can't fix or save him. You've gone above and beyond the call of duty. Time for him to figure out if he can save himself.

I do worry if he needs professional help. I'm not knowledgable enough to say or give advice, but please take it seriously.

Take care Cat, I'm thinking of you and praying for you.

[peaceful_spirit]

Cat,
I know how you're feeling... EXACTLY. My H went though a lot of this, but in a much shorter timeframe. My H did the back and forth thing with OW many times every few weeks. And one time, I he saw me waiting at his apartment for him and he tried to turn his car around, like a coward.

The fact is, they are cowards. They are afraid of pain. So, they will do what they need to to avoid pain. Your H has lost his "feelings" for you. And the infatuaiton feelings of his A make him feel alive. But they are fantasy. Your H clearly sounds depressed. If your H is willing to really commit to getting the help he needs, IMO, no need to throw him out. He is lost. He is a mess. He probably feels like an ass. but he was acting on his emotions, which is never a good thing.

You are strong. And no matter what, you'll be okay. You WILL do right by your kids. And financially, you'll find a way. So know that if you and your H end up D, you will be fine... great even. However, there still may be hope. if you H is aware of his state of mind and willing to get help, there is hope.

Just see how this plays out. And in the meantime, protect yourself, emotionally and financially.

[cat03]

thanks friends for helping me see the bigger pict and keep me alert, I won't let tears nor fear direct my decisions, rest asured.

Wouldn't he have stopped earlier if those had been his feelings?

I believe he didnt' have those feelings up until he got caught, again, ow did lie to me about their time together, now that i'm putting 2 and 2 together, they were not together the entire time since June, they saw each other less than 3-4x, he has a letter he wrote trying to break it off w/her this month. Once I found out and scared the living hell out of him by showing up at ow's and ow showed him how much of a whore she is he actually realized what he had put in peril. Sadly, his logic is faulty, he is truly and royally messed up.
A friend did tell me it sounds like an addict, not able to shake off the drug-- didn't help that she was so shameless that I do see her showing up at his station and pushing herself until he gave in even after the letter he did give her.

We talked about his state of mind briefly when we went to the T today, and the T did explain him quite a few things, and told me quite a few things about him too.

Does he love you yet? Have those feelings returned?

No, he hasn't said it, he's only said that he'd do anything I want and that he wants me in his life. He admitted that his feelings died for me the day he left the home back in 05 and al this time was unable to conjure them. The T explained him (much like the other C) that the loving feelings will not come unless he gives the leap of faith and reaches out to me and expresses affection, that it might feel unnatural but that was what needed to happen.
If he was disconnected before he now is broken in tiny pieces, he tells me he looks inside and sees nothing. In a fit of desperation, after the T, he told me he gives up, that there is nothing left in him to give me and can't give me what i want/deserve, the I'd b better off divorced from him.
He calmed down much later, and I told him we shouldnt' make any decisions until we both clear our heads and see the new MC wednesday.

Your H clearly sounds depressed. If your H is willing to really commit to getting the help he needs, IMO, no need to throw him out.

I did think so too, the T however didnt' really think it was depresion, she said it was mostly feelings of helplessness resurficing from when his psychotic dad was alive and was abusive physically (cornered him and punched him) and verbally (called him dummy, worthless and looser). H reacted by tunning him out, removing himself from the sitch (even being taller than his dad he never hit back) and thus that's why he is unable to express his feelings, voice them because he's been taught to block out pain and escape.
The T said how there were 3 choices: 1-he needed to make a decision right now,2- mutual separation which she thought was not the way to go since during all this time it was pretty much how things were, him downstairs and uninvolved with the family and things got worse, or 3-decide to work things out together.

H confessed that internally he feels very little compared to me, that the control issue was/is a big factor why he was unable/unwilling to give, that he is vindictive and thought that everyone was like that and was sure I'd take revenge on him (T explained nicely the fallacy of that thinking).

T said that MC had to go along with IC, because you also learn a lot of yourself during MC which helps you to reconnect with your self and your partner...we did go a long time without MC.

H had a christmas party at work, as I was wondering at what time he'd come I'd realize it was up to him, I wouldnt' call him nor fret. He ended up calling me and asking at what time he should come, not to humor me, but truly wanting to work with me.

I'm setting up all the pieces of the puzzle and trying to figure out how this is going to work out, I don't want to put myself in the same boat as last time, but also I have a small hope that he learned a valuable lesson.

[peaceful_spirit]

Cat,
This all sounds so familiar. I remember during MC once, my H said that he didn't think it was right to fake the affectionate feelings if we didn't really feel them. The MC, like yours, said that you have to start "faking it", then it will come more naturally. I mean, we didnt' get to this point in our Ms for no reason. We all need to change SOME behaviors, that may not feel natural.

As for the addiction, I remembered reading that As are addictions a long time ago. But then I experienced it with H.... and wow, the books were right. In my H's case, he knew he didn't want to be with OW, he knew he didn't want to spend his life with her, he didn't love her, yet he seemed unable to resist the pull of her. My H's OW was also relentless, sending him TMs about how she can't stop thinking about him, asking if he's wearing is special underwear, etc. But I digress... As are addictions. Think about how powerful that infatuation feeling is at the beginning of an R.

Rs are not about the infatuation feeling. Real Rs are about partnership... resolving conflict... intimacy... seeing each other's best and worst.

Your H is working through all this right now. He's in a dark place right now. He needs time to come to these conculsions on his own.

You need your MC to guide the two of you. And I also do firmly agree that your H needs IC so he can talk some of these things out without the pressure of you being there.

Hang in there.

[limbo]

(((Cat)))

I just wanted to stop by and see how YOU are doing..

My H has been dealing with depression and at his very worst sounds very much like your H.
It is a hard road, but you stay strong, and don't let it pull you down, its so hard not to do.

[LoginName]

Cat, I was going to say that if nothing else, if you can't financially separate, that you separate your finances and protect yourself that way. Separate your lifes as much as possible, even if you live in the same house. But your post, and what the T said, make better sense. Still, maybe separate finances now, start setting up for a life apart, or at least protect yourself?

There are so many hurt, scarred, afraid, grownups out there. My wife learned to tune out, turn off, hide her feelings because of an abusive mom. Now here we are, in our 40's dealing with these childhood issues. wow.

I feel hopeful for you and your H, after the T, and with the MC. He might not be able to do it. You might get tired, or decide it's not worth it, but there is hope.

A's are an addiction. The books I read said it takes about 6 months after the total end of an A for the person to get over the addiction. My W took almost exactly 6 months to get over it, although I still wonder. And the head games that can be played inside the person: the guilt of leaving the OW/OM, the guilt from hurting our spouse, the desire to run from the guilt and pain, the desire to make it right, the helplessness of knowing you can't make it right - sometimes you just have to admit that you really messed things up, you can't fix it, or anyone, and just start doing what is right, and do it right now. Then you find a way to live with the guilt and pain, and hopefully find a way to forgive yourself - which is even harder than getting your spouse to forgive you.

Which may be part of the reason why your H doesn't say he's sorry. WHy say it? If you said you forgave him, could he ever believe it? He can't forgive himself, how could he believe you could?

and what a powerful idea: that your husband assumes,expects everyone to be as vindictive as he is, or as his father was. How many of us assume other's motivations are the same as ours,and they're not. If your H can see that you can have other motivations, honestly give without strings, all those good things, he'll make such a huge leap in his ability to relate to others. wow.

I'm rooting for you cat, that you find happiness and what you need.

[runningoutoftime]

I think the most important thing you can do is emotionally separate yourself from your husband. I personally can understand staying together (particularly for kids. I would do it), but I think you need to be realistic and start thinking of yourself as more separate and taking care of you. That way you are prepared either way... because this thing can go either way.

Even if your husband stays in an unhealthy place, and cannot work through his problems, the more you are involved with him, trying to help him, trying to fix things, going through success, failure, success.... that's only going to tire you out, and create resentment on your part (and may even make him feel like you are controlling him, or trying to direct his life). He needs to fix these problems on his own. Also, I think he will need to find his way back to the marriage on his own.

I think you should emotionally protect yourself, be a friend and good listener, but still give him lots of emotional space and distance to take care of his own stuff. Expect him to fail.... that way if he does you wont be crushed, and if he doesn't after 5 years, you can be pleasantly surprised. Create a life for yourself that will be great with or without him.

You're getting lots of good advice here on your thread... you'll have to figure out what snippets of wisdom you want to apply. I Believe you are strong and wise and will figure out the best path.

[believing_isaiah43]

{{{{cat}}}}
following along when I can and thinking of you.