I don't know... I don't know... yes and no, I think. I'm thinking on the motivations of females who no longer have the need to pair bond in order to reproduce, or even for 'protection.' The traditional motivations are no longer in play. For example, with me... I was getting upset with xBF because of his 'playing house' behaviors. NOP pointed out to me that men typically do not buy the cow when they are getting the milk for free.
I think it's complicated because even though you might not need something for practical reasons you still might need it for psychological reasons. If the deep psychological reason that women want to pair-bond is to facilitate baby-raising then does there have to be something that is the "baby" in order to want to pair-bond? I think that might be the case but that there might be healthy ways to achieve that. For instance, a shared political cause could be the baby or a shared love for gardening could be the baby or a shared desire to have a warm and inviting home for friends and relatives to visit could be the baby.
OTOH, there's still sex. There too I think you can't act in denial of basic physiological/psychological factors. For instance, I think of "protection" as being something that bridges the gap between the St.Bernard and the Wolf. I absolutely trusted GP in the "follow into the dark alley" sense because I had no doubt that he would smush any spider that came along without hesitation and, frankly, I found that rather erotic. Unfortunately, there were other ways in which I did not trust him.
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But hurry up, would you? I need to discuss and mull over what 'drives' the older woman.
Well, rumor has it that the older man is just looking for a nurse or a purse so I think we're bumming.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
In your case, I now understand why you are getting held up... so do you... in which case... I'd ask your lioness... how bad do you want to end this? When you know, you know... and that will become your focus and you will figure it out. Period. But just because you might NOT know doesn't mean you are broken. It just means you aren't ready. And that's okay.
Okay, a couple things are evident. First off, clearly I have no respect for my 2bx or else I would be hassling him for child support. Secondly, I think I have repressed my lioness for reasons along the lines of I believe the old saying that "living well is the best revenge" and I don't want to be vengeful because I model myself after my nice guy father because I fear being like my lioness/monkey mother. I can't help being monkey because both my mother and my father were pretty monkey. But I repress my lioness because I view my mother as an amoral, irresponsible, money-driven ball-buster and I can't imagine how any man on the planet could possibly be attracted to me if I act like her. Also, I am driven to date exactly the opposite man from the one she would choose for me. The one she would choose for me would be somebody with a lot of money and a strong compulsion to make his MIL very comfortable in her old age - lol. The funny thing is that my 2bx actually had a certain amount of respect for my mother and when I told GP what I thought were some horrific stories about her, he just cracked up laughing.
I think I might have posted this before but not too long ago my mother told me the following anecdote. She and my father were having one of their screaming fights and she said to him "I know that you would never hit me." and my father replied "Yeah, I would never hit you because then I would have to worry about you stabbing me to death in my sleep." My mother thought this was a very funny story and I could tell that she was proud of the fact that my father thought she was capable of such behavior.
Anyway, the fact that I do indeed have a lioness is evident in certain aspects of what I enjoy about my business. It is really very actively competitive. My sister has on occasion said things to me like "I think the other dealers don't like us because we do so well at the sales." to which I have replied "It's not our fault that we are better than them. We can be friendly but they aren't our friends."
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Don't take this the wrong way but I think you are kind of letting your Mom choose your boyfriends for you.
I'm not going to take it the wrong way, but I am wondering where that one came from.
My mother is actually not happy with this break up. It isn't convenient for her.
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That post you made where you talked about your tendency to care for homeless people really gave me an inkling into what might be one of your problems in your relationships.
Cool.
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I think you need to have a torrid affair with a beautiful starving musician or some similar type in order to process the fact that you both love and fear attractive irresponsible men like your father.
Hm. That describes Step Dad Number 2 better than my father. I think he fits better with my need to take care of homeless people, personally.
I think it's complicated because even though you might not need something for practical reasons you still might need it for psychological reasons.
Sure. I see your point. But I also think the psychological necessity to procreate would naturally diminish over time as a woman's physical ability to have babies ends. I do understand your point about the 'shared goal' though.
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OTOH, there's still sex. There too I think you can't act in denial of basic physiological/psychological factors. For instance, I think of "protection" as being something that bridges the gap between the St.Bernard and the Wolf.
LOL. You are correct that I am not turned on by a guy who screams and jumps on a chair when he sees a spider. Major turn-off. I think at this point, though, I am more into psychological safety and protection... and that requires a very intelligent yet amusing type of man.
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Well, rumor has it that the older man is just looking for a nurse or a purse so I think we're bumming.
I'm not going to take it the wrong way, but I am wondering where that one came from. \:\)
My mother is actually not happy with this break up. It isn't convenient for her
That's just what I'm saying. Your mother liked your BF. I would probably be LD if I let my mother pick my BFs. Also, waiting until date #x to have sex is a rule a parent would make. It seems to me while you are having all those sexless dates you are necessarily repressing your ability to judge whether you are sexually attracted to a man while you concentrate on other factors mostly related to security. I, of course, have the opposite problem. I want to be sexually attracted to men so right away I start scanning away for anything sexy about a man which necessarily causes me to be more sexually aroused and round-heeled. If I can't find anything sexually attractive on date #1 I think it would be cruel to go on date #2 with the guy and lead him on. If I do find something sexually attractive on date #1 then I am horny as heck thinking about it by date #2.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Okay, a couple things are evident. First off, clearly I have no respect for my 2bx or else I would be hassling him for child support.
I'm not even sure why you have to worry about it. In this day and age, Children's Services takes care of this kind of thing. Have you not given them his name/location? And why would you not do that at least?
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Secondly, I think I have repressed my lioness for reasons along the lines of I believe the old saying that "living well is the best revenge" and I don't want to be vengeful because I model myself after my nice guy father because I fear being like my lioness/monkey mother.
Hmmm.... could be. I don't mean to be cruel or to offend, but I don't remember you really standing up for yourself with 2bx when you were together. In the specific situation you are in, the lioness comes through for self=protection and dignity, not to prove to the males that she can handle herself, or to scare them. It's more of a kill or be killed kind of instinct. That sounds rather harsh, but I hope you know what I mean.
That's just what I'm saying. Your mother liked your BF. I would probably be LD if I let my mother pick my BFs.
He is the only guy I've ever been with whom she knew before I did.
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Also, waiting until date #x to have sex is a rule a parent would make.
Could be... but I made that comment when you asked how you could keep the dopamine/R chemicals at bay. Postponing sex is a good way to do it, at least at first. Just so you know, that isn't a rule I necessarily live by. It was just a suggestion.
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It seems to me while you are having all those sexless dates you are necessarily repressing your ability to judge whether you are sexually attracted to a man while you concentrate on other factors mostly related to security.
Well... if I"m not sexually attracted to a man, I don't really worry about security issues, and it's not very likely the dating will last very long. Though... sexual attraction CAN develop, so it seems a bit hasty to dump someone immediately if there is at least one thing I find sexually... intriguing? I explore. Isn't that what dating is about?
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I, of course, have the opposite problem. I want to be sexually attracted to men so right away I start scanning away for anything sexy about a man which necessarily causes me to be more sexually aroused and round-heeled. If I can't find anything sexually attractive on date #1 I think it would be cruel to go on date #2 with the guy and lead him on. If I do find something sexually attractive on date #1 then I am horny as heck thinking about it by date #2.
I see what you mean. But I'd say, then, that my 'trust' issues are more a problem than my mother or security or sex. I have to have a very solid sense of it before ANYTHING. And that is something I sense from a person... it probably even gives me the feel of a lioness, because there is a part of me that is very wary.
Hmmm.... could be. I don't mean to be cruel or to offend, but I don't remember you really standing up for yourself with 2bx when you were together. In the specific situation you are in, the lioness comes through for self=protection and dignity, not to prove to the males that she can handle herself, or to scare them. It's more of a kill or be killed kind of instinct. That sounds rather harsh, but I hope you know what I mean.
I think I had a hard time trying to figure out how to stand up for myself without being cruel. For example, if my 2bx implied that I was unattractive then I didn't want to respond with something like "Well, you have legs like two skinny white sticks but I still have sex with you." So, I guess I too often made the mistake of either falling to weak bunny "Waaah." or being the ever-kind, semi-martyred cow "I would never say anything like that to you because I am nice. You are not a nice boy." However, I think it is evident that when I said "I will not stay in a sexless marriage." I meant it. Probably I did a better job of looking out for my monkey than my bunny.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think I had a hard time trying to figure out how to stand up for myself without being cruel.
Chuckle. Cruel has nothing to do with it... just like in business... you can be friendly, but not friends. It's business. And remember, 'cruel' is often a matter of opinion... one your 2bx KNOWS will work with you... who the HE!! cares if that man sees you as cruel? He's left you and your kids high and dry. To me, that takes 'cruel' out of the equation. Why doesn't it for you?
Oh... and to be more clear.... trust is a big issue for me, but a bigger issue is me not listening to my gut... it's more like I find guys I WANT to trust, even though my gut is telling me... hmmmm... no, let's just move along... but I don't... and I hang around... hoping they will prove me wrong... And that, I think, is a direct replay of father issues. Doesn't really have anything to do with my mom.
