GGG- What it means to me.

[Corri]

I spoke like a man.

No you didn't.

She responded like a weak bunny. These are not my judgements, these are the observations of her fellow females.

Which the females seemed to clear up in their own way, without your help.

you are absolutely correct. If LFL doesnt want to hear from me on what I think will work for her R, she can say so. I dont need to argue with you about how my post to her made you feel.

LOL. LFL is a big girl. I was writing for YOUR benefit... and if you don't want to hear from me what I think might help you, especially in the way you communicate, that's fine. Feeling has nothing to do with it.

Want to keep going? I do appreciate it.

It's a rather slow time for me as well... so I dunno... I can chew the fat...

[MJontheMend]

I understand. My wolf sees them all as bunnies. All.

Nope. Your St.Bernard sees them as bunnies. The wolf would just see them as meat.

Women are very good at making you feel bad for 'hurting their feelings'. Its MANIPULATION.
Dont fall for it.
Her feelings are VERY resiliant. I recommend you test out how resiliant they are. If her crying controls you, your done. If her anger controls you, your done.

I can honestly tell you that I never once felt like I was trying to control my 2bx by crying. I felt more like he was trying to control me by making me cry. I felt like for some sick reason he wanted me to cry. I couldn't understand why he would frequently have sex with me only after he made me cry. It seemed to me that he wanted me to be weak in order to be appealing or less threatening or something like that. But maybe the opposite was true because it might be that what really happened was that he would have sex with me right when I stopped crying and started to feel sort of angry and tough because he had hurt my bunny. But I definitely didn't consciously feel like his decision to be sexual at that point was a result of him being "controlled" by my anger. Maybe if I had I would have seen his behavior as placating but I wasn't conscious of being angry enough to process it that way.

However, me telling LFL to "woman up" will not communicate that either. RHW thought it was appropriate to say to the new guy here who is going thru an A. I didnt see any men tell him to go get what he needs somewhere else or move on of dump that B!tch, or anything like that. I see women do it A L L THE T I M E.

Hey, I'm the inventress of the Sisters Of Mercy Sex van.

I think thats just a ruse to get a man to show some softness, so you can kick the puppy and see if its wolf inside (reassuring) or if its really puppy. (icky) But I am willing to listen and ponder.

In a way, I actually fear encountering the puppy dog in a man because I feel like the puppy dog is what will bind me to a man and render me defenseless because I become all cow and no lioness. I can't do anything to hurt a man to the extent that I see him as puppy dog. Then too much of my cow energy goes to protecting his puppy dog and my bunny is left to fend for herself. If a guy stays all wolf then I can have sex with him without my cow falling in love. The thing I've found to be true is that many men don't want you to discover their puppy dog because they don't want to view you viewing them as weak or vulnerable. Okay, that's not really true. What I mean is that all men really do want to have their puppy dog cared for but then sometimes they feel self-disgust or something like that for giving in to that emotion. One of the reasons I get so defensive if somebody implies that I am a "slut" is that I am so cow that men frequently become very puppy dog around me in a sexual context and so I feel like I did something caring by being sexual. I am only semi-joking when I say that I am the woman most likely to get hit on by a slit-eyed leather-wearing hard*ss in a biker bar and end up with him telling me about his terrible FOO with tears in his eyes and then falling asleep with his head on my breasts. In my experience, that kind of thing doesn't turn ME off and cause me to kick the puppy but it causes the guy to be like "WTF have I done?" and throw his Wolf suit back on pronto. I'm not doing anybody any favors if I act too cow because, like you said, men can't sexually function from puppy dog and most men do want to sexually function.

oh... when you respondedc crankily to me in the post where you said CLUE IN, that was a woman. much more attractive then a weak bunny. I liked it. I may or may not agree with what you said, but I can respect it.

Well, now that I got bunny feeling pretty strong, my next mission clearly is to work on lioness. My sister is definitely of the opinion that the way in which my marriage dysfunctioned caused me to repress that part of my personality or vice versa. I'll tell you a little secret. When I was a girl, I used to beat up the boys who picked on my little sisters. I felt like it was my job as the oldest. The weak dysfunctional lioness or wolf is a sadist or a bully. The strong functional lioness or wolf is a hunter or a beater up of bullies, I guess- lol. So, I'm glad that you pointed out to me that I was manifesting that part of my personality a bit in reaction to what I saw as you bullying my little sister LFL a bit. My real sister said to me recently "What happened to all that righteous anger you used to have?" It's interesting to me that you saw that as attractive. It's also related to the reason why GP saw me as a bit of an attractive "mafia wife" when I showed that side to him.

I believe that you would like to see more puppy from me, because its always the dichotomy that gets womens interest (peoples?)

All I'm saying is that if you ignore your puppy dog, you won't kill it you'll just make it weak. Of course, it's the dichotomy that gets women's interest. It's the dichotomy that gets men's interest too. The velvet fist or the kitten with sharp claws. It's all the same. The velvet nerf ball is kind of boring and redundant kind of like the bunny in a car seat. Of course, the monkey in a car seat is just a whiny PITA but if you put the wolf in a car seat he becomes a puppy dog and if you put the lioness in the car seat she becomes a declawed kitten or a bunny. Clearly , I need to make a chart for all the possibilities.

[blackfoot]

LOL. LFL is a big girl. I was writing for YOUR benefit... and if you don't want to hear from me what I think might help you, especially in the way you communicate, that's fine. Feeling has nothing to do with it.


Quote:
Want to keep going? I do appreciate it.


It's a rather slow time for me as well... so I dunno... I can chew the fat...

According to David Deida, not taking responsibility for anothers feelings, includes picking a woman who picks you. A woman surrendering to you is her choice, not A mans job to force and dominate her into.

So while I would still like to hear from Mojo about my posts, I dont want to-- from you. There was nothing constructive from you to me, in any of those posts.
Thank you.

[blackfoot]

The wolf would just see them as meat.
Well in that case my actions say wolf. Youd have to ask them how they feel.
Women are very good at making you feel bad for 'hurting their feelings'. Its MANIPULATION.
Dont fall for it.
Her feelings are VERY resiliant. I recommend you test out how resiliant they are. If her crying controls you, your done. If her anger controls you, your done.

Mojo, Ive said before, you were too surrendered. This was not for you, or about you. You are proof of the above. I dont compare you and LFL's situation.

In a way, I actually fear encountering the puppy dog in a man because I feel like the puppy dog is what will bind me to a man and render me defenseless because I become all cow and no lioness.
Maybe we have some similarities. Actually I dont fear it anymore, I just dont take any responsibility for the bunny. If I feel the urge, I leave. its a bad dynamic. I learned from my first fiancee.
x probably would have been up to taking care of herself, if I hadnt coupled it with removing EC, and being coldly detached instead of lovingly detached. shrug.

What I mean is that all men really do want to have their puppy dog cared for but then sometimes they feel self-disgust or something like that for giving in to that emotion.
Men may appreciate it but they dont need it. A man is not going to get it, when he really truly needs it.

Im still looking for a reason why it would be a good idea for the R. Ive not seen any examples on this BB where it was.

[Corri]

BF:

So while I would still like to hear from Mojo about my posts, I dont want to-- from you. There was nothing constructive from you to me, in any of those posts.
Thank you.

[Corri]

Mo:

"Cute as a button? Maybe so... but..I wouldn't push it if I were you...unless you like that sort of thing. Do you?"

Oh my goodness...

I like it. I really like it. Puts me in the proper frame of mind... thank you!

[MJontheMend]

Mojo, Ive said before, you were too surrendered.

Is being too surrendered something Deida talks about? Is it more a matter of surrendering for the wrong reasons? I know what allowed me to become "unsurrendered" is when I saw my 2bx's dysfunctional top behavior as weak yet dangerous, like a rabid wolf is weak yet dangerous. It might give you some insight to note that although my 2bx did start to placate a bit when he saw that my attraction had turned to disgust, it seemed to me that his placation was in reaction to my disgust rather than vice versa. I became turned off for reasons of self-protection and the placation only made things worse but wasn't the cause of my turn-off. Maybe when we feel weak or are revealed as weak we tend to fall to puppy dog or bunny because we understand that we are most lovable and non-threatening in that mode.

Men may appreciate it but they dont need it. A man is not going to get it, when he really truly needs it.

Im still looking for a reason why it would be a good idea for the R. Ive not seen any examples on this BB where it was.

Women don't get it when they truly need it either but if you think about it that's probably a good thing for the survival of the species. The puppy dog isn't necessarily a weak animal, it's just an innocent vulnerable animal. The reason a man should freely manifest as strong puppy dog in a relationship is that women like to manifest as loving and the strong puppy dog is the most lovable animal.

[MJontheMend]

Wow. This seems to me to be the 'hippopotamus in room,' then. Once you figure this out, I don't think you'll ever have to worry again about breaking your own rules.

Thanks for the hug. Actually, I think that once I figure this out I won't even have to make up a bunch of rules for myself. The strong lioness pretty much just goes out and gets what she wants. She's in charge of contracts but there is no need to make a contract with yourself if you trust your own judgment. If the lioness did abide by rules for sexuality they would be less along the arbitrary societal-enforced lines of "Don't have sex on the first date." and more along the lines of "Consider why you are having sex with a man if you wouldn't lend him $1000." or "Consider why you are having sex with a man if you wouldn't follow into a dark alley if he said it was safe."

[Corri]

Thanks for the hug. Actually, I think that once I figure this out I won't even have to make up a bunch of rules for myself.

Absolutely.

The strong lioness pretty much just goes out and gets what she wants. She's in charge of contracts but there is no need to make a contract with yourself if you trust your own judgment. If the lioness did abide by rules for sexuality they would be less along the arbitrary societal-enforced lines of "Don't have sex on the first date." and more along the lines of "Consider why you are having sex with a man if you wouldn't lend him $1000." or "Consider why you are having sex with a man if you wouldn't follow into a dark alley if he said it was safe."

I don't know... I don't know... yes and no, I think. I'm thinking on the motivations of females who no longer have the need to pair bond in order to reproduce, or even for 'protection.' The traditional motivations are no longer in play. For example, with me... I was getting upset with xBF because of his 'playing house' behaviors. NOP pointed out to me that men typically do not buy the cow when they are getting the milk for free.

But... I'm NOT in the market for a farmer, and I don't even want to play house... but my behaviors, I think from habit, were probably signaling that very thing. So once NOP pointed that out to me, and I figured out my own confusion, at least on these points, my decision/direction became ... not easier... just more self-evident.

So now... I'm thinking hard on... what AM I in the market for? I know I would like to be in another LTR, but I am not in a rush to get there. I know that I have to go through the dopey chemical phase, and a good 12 months beyond that to test basic character traits I find important. I'm interested not in how well I get on with someone, but how well we handle disagreements and money.

I'm interested in how we handle sex.

How I go about finding that, I've found, is a bit different than the traditional dating I did when I was young. What I am looking for in a man now is radically different than what I was seeking in my 20s.

I had to lose my fear of 'isolation.'

I also had to heal and regain my footing. Right now, it's like I'm meeting the 'Who I Am' that I have been defining and developing for the last 20plus years -- for the very first time.

In your case, I now understand why you are getting held up... so do you... in which case... I'd ask your lioness... how bad do you want to end this? When you know, you know... and that will become your focus and you will figure it out. Period. But just because you might NOT know doesn't mean you are broken. It just means you aren't ready. And that's okay.

But hurry up, would you? I need to discuss and mull over what 'drives' the older woman.

[MJontheMend]

Hi,
I'll post some more later about my own issues which are kind of the opposite of yours but first I want to rattle your zoo cages a bit. From my perspective, you are still a little too much inclined towards sitting at the LD girl's table in the lunchroom. Don't take this the wrong way but I think you are kind of letting your Mom choose your boyfriends for you. In a weird way, it wasn't the case that your BF was a bad choice but almost not enough of a "bad" choice, if you know what I mean. You are over-protecting your bunny with your lioness. That post you made where you talked about your tendency to care for homeless people really gave me an inkling into what might be one of your problems in your relationships. I think you need to have a torrid affair with a beautiful starving musician or some similar type in order to process the fact that you both love and fear attractive irresponsible men like your father.