You were all right...unfortunately...

[chocolateeyes]

I think the outcome depends upon the reason the A existed. My H thought I didn't love him anymore it transpired. My reaction showed him I did. If I hadn't reacted strongly I think that would have confirmed to him that I didn't care anymore. It

I found this interesting. This was the case in our marriage, too -- my "don'tgiveashitness" in the face of her non-existent sex drive had led my wife to believe that I didn't care about her anymore. My STRONG reaction to her affair showed her otherwise, and she told me as much afterward.

Choc.

[SouthernGirl]

I think the outcome depends upon the reason the A existed. My H thought I didn't love him anymore it transpired. My reaction showed him I did. If I hadn't reacted strongly I think that would have confirmed to him that I didn't care anymore. It

I found this interesting. This was the case in our marriage, too -- my "don'tgiveashitness" in the face of her non-existent sex drive had led my wife to believe that I didn't care about her anymore. My STRONG reaction to her affair showed her otherwise, and she told me as much afterward.

Choc.

Yes. The first law of fence-tending is tending your own boundaries.

[Lillieperl]

Bomb wrote:

I've been putting up with this EA for almost two years

WHOA! This jumped out at me. Am I the only one who let this factoid about the length of the EA slide by?

An EA for TWO YEARS, and she says there's been no physical contact??? No effing way! You cannot sustain that level of intimacy, anticipation, heavy flirting, sexy talk for that long without being driven to consummate the R. At least that was my experience. Am I missing something (I do from time to time)? She has claimed it's only an emotional affair? I doubt it--


Also my take on the dinner with the dentist thing is that he is only a friend, but by going out to dinner with him, she can "prove" that she has male friends in whom she has no romantic interest. Remember she said, "am I not supposed to have any friends?" So this is her way of proving that she can be friends with a guy and socialize with him and tell Bomb and it will be all above board.

Bomb, listen to choc and NOP.

And everyone is right: you have to decide what you will put up with. Remember you can't make her do anything. You can apply pressure by stating what you will and won't put up with, but ultimately the decision is hers.

[Sara]

After I confronted my H about his affair, and even after it ended because apparently OW wasn't interested in being in a contentious relationship, my H kept trying to blame his affair on me. This went on for weeks. He kept saying that I said hurtful things to him through the years of our marriage. So I took the emails that I had from him to her and I copied the part where he said he loved her and that marrying me was a mistake. And I said to him, "Hurtful words, you want to see hurtful words?" And I handed him a piece of paper on which I had copied his words (so he knew I had the original emails, and he wasn't getting them back). And he read his own words. After that I didn't hear about how I caused his affair with my hurtful words.

[saffie]

B50,

I hope you are OK. We have been happily filling your thread but no-one has heard from you since you went home. I shall keep my fingers crossed you are OK.

[bombardier50]

I think our conversation the other night made it clear to her that I felt she had crossed the line. And I think her little "act-out" last night was just rebellion. When she got home at about 0800, she called me on my cell to see where I was. I told her I was doing a little Christmas shopping. When I got home she was very quiet, and so was I.

As I left for work this morning, she said goodbye, but she said "I really don't feel like giving you a kiss." Okay, I said.

I've thought a lot about what I might say when I see her this evening. I think I'll just tell her that she knows how I feel, and I know how she feels. Let's call a truce until later, and just agree that we disagree, and move on. I can't stop her from talking to the OM, or going out to dinner with other guys. She's free to do all that.

And she's free to walk out the door if she thinks that's what she needs to do to be happy. I'll be hurt and sad, but I'll find a way to move on. That's what I'll tell her.

It's not going to be easy to get through this Christmas. And here we are with two new grandkids.

I'd have to say that this is the lowest I've ever felt in my life.

[bombardier50]

Sara,
The same is happening here, I think. She's refusing to admit that her relationship is more than just friends, but I've planted the seed of doubt and now she's probably feeling some guilt. Her reaction, of course, is to blame me for everything and remind me of all the hurtful things I've done to her since the beginning of time. How in the world did you make it through several weeks of this? I'm trying to figure out how to make it through the next several days...

These unpleasant thoughts and images keep flashing through my head and I can't make them stop. I drive by apartment buildings and wonder if I'll be in one of those before too long. I had a dream last night that we were going through the house, splitting up our stuff, and we got to the pictures of the kids, and that's when I woke up, sobbing.

[fearless]

b50,

I'm so sorry for all your going though here at the holidays. It's not easy and it won't be easy to fix all of this. But hang in there!!!!!

Of course you haven't been perfect but then again no one is. As hard as it will be, I would just listen to her complaints without arguing with her and without accepting blame. Just listen. Arguing could make her dig in further and accepting blame too easily will let her feel off the hook.

As far as MC, for my own experience my XH initiated MC even though he was involved in an affair. I later found out his reason was that he thought MC would make it clear that I was completely at fault for the issues in our marriage. When that didn't happen, it left him very confused but it still did not help our marriage. Raven's XW was in IC and then brought him into sessions for what turned into MC. When the MC did not completely blame Raven for everything and pointed at XW for a few things, she just quit counseling. (There was also an OM (probably EA at the time) in their situation also) My point for these examples is to stress that having a more open mind about your marriage and BOTH of your issues is fairly important.

On the other hand, I personally wouldn't worry about "making" her accept blame for her relationship with OM or getting her to admit to the fact that it is a type of affair before you start counseling. To me the key is that she can stop contact with OM and understand that your concern for your marriage is with the type of conversation she has with OM. (Does she know that you saw the e-mails? Do you have a copy of any of the e-mail or communication? I have a hard time believing that ANYONE really thinks that talking about masturbating and what they want to DO to someone else is "acceptable" talk. She might just not know exactly WHAT you read.)

Also while I and everyone else here have opinions, take some time to really figure out where you are and what you want from all of this. And I do think that IC would be great for you. (But I think that everyone would benefit from GOOD IC)

Good Luck to you!!!

[Imconfused0807]

Bomber,

I missed a lot of what was said in the last day or so...but oh yea, I feel she's doing the rebellion thing and trying to get a reaction out of you, other than what you're giving her. "I'm going out for dinner with our dentist friend.....I really don't feel like giving you a kiss".... Come on!

As far as calling a truce....WTF? Why would you really want to do this? What have you done that really warrants calling a truce? From what I've read on here, you've been firm but gentle. You planted a seed in her mind that what she is doing is wrong. Wrong for your boundaries, wrong for your marriage. You've pretty much dealt with one of the hardest tasks...exposing whatever it is they had going on. It's early, you feel like sh!t, you've brought things to the front burner...let it simmer. By calling a truce, basically what you're doing is putting this pot on the back burner and for you and her to work this out, you're eventually going to have to re-open the lid on that pot and turn the heat up again.

You ever go fishing Bomber?.....Use night crawlers? Bomber, you've already opened a can of worms....best to deal with it now because the longer them worms stay in the can and you keep putting the lid on them...they begin to stink

Christmas with 2 new grandkids...GREAAAT!!! Enjoy them, use them to take your mind off things...it's ok...really. Keep it up, stay the course...you're doing fine.

[chocolateeyes]

After I confronted my H about his affair, and even after it ended because apparently OW wasn't interested in being in a contentious relationship, my H kept trying to blame his affair on me. This went on for weeks. He kept saying that I said hurtful things to him through the years of our marriage. So I took the emails that I had from him to her and I copied the part where he said he loved her and that marrying me was a mistake. And I said to him, "Hurtful words, you want to see hurtful words?" And I handed him a piece of paper on which I had copied his words (so he knew I had the original emails, and he wasn't getting them back). And he read his own words. After that I didn't hear about how I caused his affair with my hurtful words.

Sara,

I had the opposite experience -- my wife was doing the classic script "re-writing of marital history" thing with me, saying that she "felt this way for a long time now." So I got out VERY recent anniversary, Valentine's Day, and other cards she had given me -- one of them just a MONTH or so before her affair started -- where she told me how much she LOVED me, and how special our relationship was, etc.

That put a stop to her foolish talk right away.

Choc.