PS: If I pulled a stunt like that with my h, Armageddon is probably a euphemism to what I'd unleash. He's a pretty cool guy normally, but this is simply something he wouldn't tolerate.
If I did and got no reaction, my respect would also go to nonexistent.
Boundaries aren't for the other person. They're for you.
All this is true, but what can he do? Assuming he wants to save the marriage, of course. If he tries to stop her from going he's backed into a corner. What are the options?
To a degree I'm playing devil's advocate, but at the same time, if you set boundaries that you know will be crossed, how do you back them up, and still move in the direction you ultimately want to go?
My wife actually did this to me, although it was with a GROUP of people. I just said "Have a good time," and went to bed a little earlier than usual and made sure all of the lights were out and the house was locked up tight when she got home. ROYALLY pizzed her off, but she got the message, and she never tried that level of disrespect again.
Bomb, as Burg just said, YOU need to decide what your boundaries are. Hell, for some people, that's a flat-out OPEN MARRIAGE, but you'd just better let me meet the other guy first. For others, we would not tolerate emotional or physical relationships between our spouse and any third party.
Most of you are debating whether such confrontation and exposure will WORK. Having just gone thru this, I would argue that the greater issue is -- whether or NOT the marriage makes it -- do the parties emerge with their self-respect intact, so that they can move on to healthier relationships over the rest of their lives. To that end, Bomb, I'd ask you a simple question:
How does it make you feel when you allow your wife to carry on an EA? How is it going to make you feel tonite to sit at home while she is out with another man?
Only you can answer these questions for yourself. I was the world's quintessential "Niceguy," and I there was no way in HELL I was going to go down without fighting for our marriage and our family. And I would be willing to BET that -- at some level -- your wife is looking to see if you will fight for yours.
To a degree I'm playing devil's advocate, but at the same time, if you set boundaries that you know will be crossed, how do you back them up, and still move in the direction you ultimately want to go?
Unfortunately, that's not how boundaries work. You can't form boundaries in order to get things to move in the direction you want them to go. All a boundary can do is define a part of who you are.
For instance, let's say you want to talk to your best friend on the phone. You call them and they're already talking to somebody else but they have call waiting so they answer your call and put you on hold so they can finish the conversation that's already in progress. How long would you wait on hold? However long it is, that's your boundary. You can't enforce your boundary without giving up the thing you want. It's maddening because you might get what you want if you'll just wait another ten seconds, but at some point you'll decide waiting ten more seconds isn't worth it any more and you'll hang up.
Man, we could really extend this metaphor (what if you tell your friend that you'll only wait on hold 10 minutes but in reality you'll wait 20 minutes, etc). But that's beside the current point.
Maybe your boundary is: I will stay married no matter what. A lot of people seem to have that one. I know I was willing to tolerate one helluva lot; way more than I should have been, in retrospect.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Get this. Spouse just called. Said "You're on your own for dinner tonight. I asked Jeff, our dentist, if he wanted to go get some dinner. I'll be home later."
I said "OK. Fine...enjoy yourself."
Our dentist is currently going through a divorce. He's pretty well off. In my mind this is just some sort of angry revenge tactic, so I refused to play along. I just let her go.
She sure knows how to hurt a guy...
Great job in not "playing along." Don't jump into the pit with her, Bomb. Stay calm, but say "Thank you for letting me know that you won't be home. Please be safe, because I love you and I care about you," and let it go. Then I would either be gone when she got home (if I didn't have kids), or I would have the lights out and the house locked up tight (if I did). And either way, the next morning, when she came out for breakfast, I would say "I'm not sure if you're just trying to get a reaction out of me, or if you had a legitimate dental reason to be out with my former dentist last nite. But if you want to date other people, you picked the wrong husband. I love you and I expect monogamy in my marriage, so if you feel the need to do this -- with my old dentist or with your current boyfriend -- please pack your stuff and get out."
I think that's why MWD's Divorce Busting approach is so different. The goal is maintenance of the M over exposing the A probably because A's tend to run their course anyways, why lay down a law that you can never maintain yourself anyways. You cannot make people do anything they don't want to do. If she wants to have the A she will. If she wants to work on the M, she will. All you can do is be as loving and attractive to her as possible.
I can tell you that "be as loving and attractive to her (or him) as possible" was the prevailing culture on the Infidelity board back in my day (what I call the Class of '05). Didn't work for any of us. Not a single one. The only person I know of from then who had success used something of a hybrid approach and had a set of pretty unusual circumstances.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Burg- I agree with what you are saying about baoundaries. What I take away from that is that you'd better be really ready to enforce it, or it didn't mean anything. So, if you say you'll hold for ten minutes, at 10:01, the phone's down.
In the current case, I think it is reasonable that dinner with the (ex-)dentist is not crossing the boundary, necessarily, though it is well out of the bounds of normal 'acceptable' behavior. Now, it might be reasonable for bomber to tell her he doesn't want her to do that again, but he would have to be prepared to back that up.
All, I am very ambivalent to go to counseling, for all the reasons stated above. I know what she's after in counseling, and her goal is to fix me.
What that says to me, is:
"Bombardier believes that if he went to counselling, that the counsellor would tell him things to fix about himself. he isnt willing to fix himself, so he isnt willing to go to counselling".
Quote:
Unfortunately, I'm in a position where if I say no to MC, she'll use that as evidence for me not wanting to repair the M. So yes, I agree that the best approach now is to approach MC individually, and if the counselor is any good, that's how we'll start off anyway.
i disagree there, also.
ICs and MCs rarely mix well together.
they usually work directly against each other. i suggest you focus on finding a good MC.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
