LFL has not done much that Mr. can see that shows she cares about him. Since day one here, she has always said she was doing this for the kids.
Well, I don't see how staying for the kids is any worse a reason than any other. In fact, it's probably the best reason. I care about my FAMILY which H is a part of. Just because I don't have "in love" feelings or sexual attraction for him doesn't mean I am not showing CARE. Because I clearly do care and my H is certain of that.
His behavior is female repellant right now. I would be shocked out of my gourd if she did desire him. If LFL decides that monthly sex is unacceptable to her, she is completely justified saying that and ending the R. I dont think a loss of attraction is a justifiable reason, or I would never get married, as I know that I will lose my attraction at some point. But thats just my opinion on M.
First I would like to address the whole women not being able to empathize with me thing you've put out there. Let me tell you, there are many, many days I wish that I did not empathize with men. I think what you are really trying to say, although you might not admit it, is that you wish women would generally react more "cow" in response to male "puppy dogs". As we speak, I am trying not to have thoughts along the lines of "Poor GP. He's so big and tough and misunderstood and no woman has ever probably really taken good care of his puppy dog just because he acts so big and tough. He probably just misbehaved because he wanted attention." So, you can see why I don't agree with you to the extent that I think that is what you are trying to communicate. (You think that there are big boys who can take care of themselves and not-so-big-boys who deserve more cow treatment out there. My cow sees them all as boys, some are just more naughty than others(sigh) and it kills me to have to give up and take them back to the pound but I have learned that I don't do anybody any good if I don't care for my own bunny.)
If, OTOH, you are trying to communicate that LFL should act more "strong bunny" in relation to her H, then I agree AND that is why I was trying to communicate that you taking on the role of semi-dysfunctional top for her H and smacking her down to "weak bunny" with your post was NOT helpful. However, me telling LFL to "woman up" will not communicate that either. What if I told you that you should allow yourself to be more vulnerable and act more "strong puppy dog" in relation to women? Would you take my advice? Would you know how to do it? Would another guy telling you to "man up" be helpful in that regard? What he would actually have to say would be something like "boy up".
Anyways, I agree with you that loss of attraction is not a good reason to end a marriage. My hope for you is that you some day marry a woman who truly believes that too but also one who understands/comprehends/empathizes with the reasons why attraction can be lost and doesn't just fall into the puppy basket with you or retreat to her ice castle while you hunker down in your man cave etc. etc. etc. etc. Someone who is differentiated, confident, communicative enough to signal stuff like "Hey baby, I'm going to head out for the Schnarchian bar tonight 'cause I can 'see' that you aren't feeling it and I care too much to not do anything so I'm sure you can appreciate why I have to once again signal "Game On"."
LFL, "Girl Up!" and I'm saying that for your benefit, not your H's.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I will ask you why do you get so defensive when someone may mention that you could have some blame for the state of this marriage? You could have some blame for his LD or the way he is feeling. If he doesn't feel respected by you then he sure the heck won't want to screw you. For him a man to say he wants counseling it shows he is at least trying.
Trying, Of course I take large responsibility for the state of the M. I get defensive when people imply that I am not being a good mother. The mother lion comes out and I guess I roar. I don't think that is so hard to understand. But you still haven't answered my questions to you. If you don't want to that's fine but I'm going to assume I know the answers.
Show me where, in the post she reacted explosively to, I told LFL what to do? I asked her if the things I mentioned, were how she felt. And I pointed her to a book, that "might help her, if she chose". I dont see anything in there that "told her what to do"
All right Dom. Shall we do our time-honored "subtext" analysis?
This is the post LFL reacted to.
Originally Posted By: Dom R
You enjoyed having sex with OM 2 years ago. REALLY enjoyed it, as opposed to the sex you've had with your H.
Subtext: You're a shallow person! You enjoy sex in an illicit affair (after all you were still married!!!) more than sex with your husband. Of course it would be more titillating. Duh! But you're being BAD. And shallow. And did I mention BAD????
Originally Posted By: Dom R
You enjoyed being in a "blank slate" relationship.
Subtext: see above.
Originally Posted By: Dom R
You figure that finding a new sex/romance partner, is going to be more enjoyable and less work for you, than fixing up your existing relationship with your husband, and working to build a positive sex dynamic between you like Sheila did with her H.
Subtext: You're just lazy. After all, SHEILA fixed her marriage, and you are just like Sheila and your h is just like Sheila's h. No reason why you couldn't do the same! If you weren't lazy that is!
Ok, and this one is the killer:
Originally Posted By: Dom R
The feelings and wellbeing of your two children, are less important then item #3, above.
Subtext: YOU ARE A BAD MOTHER.
At which point any woman worth her salt is going to go for your throat, and anything of value you may have said will get lost in the haze of red which has fallen over her eyes.
Edit. P.S. In traditional marriage vows, the man doesnt say respect and honor. He says cherish and protect.
He didn't cherish and protect her. He left her.
Yes, he's sorry now, and helpless, and wants to do "something". But it was he who first broke that most fundamental of all promises. The attraction thing isn't the core problem imo, it's that LFL has a mended tear in the fabric of her marriage, and isn't sure the thread won't unravel on her again.
I think, LFL, that you'll probably find it'll hold. Leaving is a fantasy that reality usually doesn't fulfill, and he saw that. He won't do it again. Which doesn't mean that you need to forgive and forget, or even stay with him if you choose not to. Just that he won't do it again.
And I agree with those who say you need to seriously girl up. Just for yourself, to feel vulnerable and alive again. All of us girls need that feeling.
I agree with SG. Here's my further thought. If you believe that the essential problem with your marriage is that you are hurt because your H didn't "protect and cherish" you then it is even more important for you to become "strong bunny". It seems clear that there is also a sexual problem in your marriage which is probably due to the fact that your H doesn't understand or empathize with feminine/submissive sexuality and therefore has counter-productive reactions to your monkey.
Maybe you can't "be" strong bunny right now but you can "act" strong bunny. Here's how. Think about one of your kids and imagine that child is giving off the vibe "I am loved and cherished." Can you get a sense of how being around a child giving off that vibe would make you feel like you were a good parent? That is why giving off "strong bunny" vibes around a man will make him feel more Alpha/St. Bernard. Children frequently give off the opposite of "I am loved and cherished" vibes. They cry and sulk and communicate "Nooooooobody loves me. Noooooobody loves me." Obviously, they do this in order to evince the kind of behavior that will make them feel more loved and cherished. Babies are cute and lovable and we feel compelled to give them care to the extent that we believe we won't spoil them when they are weak. When adults we love act like weak children our desire to provide care can become a dysfunctional desire to "rescue" or we can be repulsed because we are attracted to strength in other adults or we may become angry because we don't want to be the adult and the one who has to do the "work" or we may become overwhelmed because we don't feel capable of being the adult etc. etc.
So, if you want to "be" more loved and cherished, you need to "act" more loved and cherished in order to make the job easier for your H at first. Your problem isn't the same as the problem I had in my marriage. My 2bx was more mean monkey/ dysfunctional top than your H but you guys really seem to be stuck in that bunny/puppy basket together. If you can just get him functioning more St. Bernard relative to you then it will be much easier for you to play him healthy monkey. This is roughly analogous to how a child who generally feels well-cared for and cherished will feel free to engage in a little creative anarchy or spirited rough-housing. A neglected child will sometimes be naughty in order to get attention but a child who generally feels safe and secure will be naughty simply because there is always a fine line between naughty and fun.
NOTE: Extensive research done with myself as guinea pig has proven that men will act sexually towards you if you just sit around being "strong bunny" and don't act monkey at all but it takes longer and is kind of boring*ss, IMO. I am personally in search of a man who can handle at least a 40% strong bunny to 60% healthy monkey mix on a regular basis as in I am sitting in the passenger seat and I do have my seatbelt on and I look very pretty in my new dress but we better be on our way to the circus 'cause I'm bouncing in my seat a little bit and my new red shoes are making my feet wiggle.
Last edited by MJontheMend; 12/14/0710:18 PM.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
LFL I get defensive when people imply that I am not being a good mother.
I guess I missed the part where someone actually said you were not a good mother.
I saw several places that some one thought or implied sex was overly important to you, but that was compared to the posters opinion of how important sex was to him.
Right now I see some added anger in your replies and I think it is adding to your resentment of your M situation.
I know it is tough to be in a passion starved M LFL. I am trying to be your friend, so how about giving yourself some credit for the things you do right.
