Plank removed from eye, too late for WAW? 9

[IAChild]

Heim,

I can't live my life waiting for her to turn around, because I honestly don't think she will. So, if there's someone I think I could enjoy some adult conversation with, I'm going for it. I'm not looking to be married again or get serious with someone or even to get laid (though, good lord, wouldn't that be lovely -- c'mon, we're all thinking it). I'd just like to spend some time with someone of the opposite sex who might find me attractive as a person and for some company of an evening.

I know exactly how you feel, dude. As a matter of fact, this it the point I was at when H2B finally snapped out of it.

I dated right after I first moved out. I called him Mr. Professor. He was about 13 yrs. younger than I and a professor in the local political sci department. It was good for my ego, until he finally put it together that it would never go anywhere. We only dated for about 10-12 weeks. However, when H2B found out about it, he about had a cow -- he saw it as me really moving up, since this guy was a professor.

After things ended with Mr. Professor, I started to get really serious about DRing. That went on for about 7 months. Towards the end of that time, another man started paying attention to me. H2B and I were talking at that time, fairly regularly, and he was on his 2nd or 3rd gf (we'd been split up for 9 months). H2B and I were moving more towards friends, and quite frankly, I was getting weary...the energy it took to allow myself to reeled back in and then maintain sanity while being turned loose was becoming very draining. I was ready to start re-focusing that energy just solely on me and my life and ready to accept that H2B and I would just be friends.

As soon as I started indicating that I was considering dating again, H2B finally snapped out of it, and told me that I was the one he wanted to marry, spend the rest of his life with. I was the best choice. About the same time, the guy I was considering dating started acting really nutso.

Call it fate, kismit, destiny, but it was clear that the path I was to take was back to H2B. We've been extraordinarily happy ever since.

If you are getting that kind of reaction from W when you talk about her A, then she just isn't ready. Based on what I've read from other LBS's when they talk about WA's A's, this is not uncommon -- the WA doesn't WANT to talk about it. They already feel badly enough as it is. Don't think that just b/c your W isn't talking about it that she isn't accepting responsibility in her mind. She probably is, but just isn't ready to get past her guilt yet.

H2B and I have discussed the diachotomy about ML between men and women -- women need to feel close to their partner BEFORE they are comfortable ML. Men ML IN ORDER TO feel close to their partner. It's a give and take, just like any other part of the R. If your W is feeling that way about ML, then she's not feeling close to you BEFORE you ML. That would indicate to me that there are other parts of the R which need attention. She must be getting that sort of attention from OM, or the draw would not still be there.

My Venusian .02, fwiw.

M

[Heimlich]

Thanks, IA. I dunno, I've been giving her indications that I really am moving on -- getting the rest of my stuff out of the house, not calling her for anything other than kid stuff. Don't tell her about my life. Don't ask her about hers. When she comes to pick up the girls, I have them ready to go. Bags packed. Shoes on. Sometimes she lingers, sometimes not.

Funny thing is as I think about this. Three months ago, my hope and expectations would be soaring. "She's turning around. Yeah." Now, I'm just befuddled that we would have that sort of conversation.

The only time I've brought up Once (and future?) OM recently was around Thanksgiving when she asked why the idea of her dating him again bothered me. Looking back, you're right, I didn't understand how hurt she was and feel like a fool for missing it. At the same time, I can't ever imagine any other feeling as devasting (other than losing one of my girls). Honestly, coping would have been easier if she had died. It took me a while, but I am over the A.

I get the whole ML dichotomy between men and women. Always have really. I had been too pushy for a few years, but around Jan of 06, it really did start to click with me that I was too pushy and making her uncomfortable. I had backed off. From my end, it looked like things were going pretty well. We ML about 3 times a week -- sometimes more, sometimes less. We were occassinally flirty during the day. I was doing more around the house, trying to keep it tidier -- things I knew she appreciated. We kissed frequently. Held hands all of the time. She wnet on a business trip in April of that year. Spent time alone with him. Connected, apparently. And we go from April -- "I love you and like being married to you, BD" to Oct "He's my soulmate."

As I've said, I wasn't perfect. I wasn't awful either.

Nomo gave some excellent advice to CVA yesterday, a variant of which I need to apply to myself. To me, when i said "but" or "why" after she would tell me something, I was just trying to extend the conversation/get closer. To her, it was invalidating whatever she was saying.

BD

[Heimlich]

GD,

Let me preempt your 2x4 and deliver it myself. I did, for 95% of our call, validate everything that she said. I did a "yes, but" statement and tried to explain my reasoning.

Right, shut up next time. If there is a next time.

BD

[oldtimer]

Heim,

I hope you will tell your prospective dates that you are still actively trying to reconcile with W and that you post daily to a bulletin board for saving Ms.

[Gone Dancin']

Let me preempt your 2x4 and deliver it myself. I did, for 95% of our call, validate everything that she said. I did a "yes, but" statement and tried to explain my reasoning.

Well, it looks like my work here is done!

GD

[Heimlich]

OT,

Date, singular. Yes, at the end of the evening I spent with the group, we were all talking about our past Rs. She asked me if I were interested in reconciling with my W. I said, yes, open to it, but don't expect it to happen.

There has been no budge in my W for 8 months, OT. I'm not a monk, nor do I intend to be one. I'm pretty sure I made my point clear of my intentions on even asking this woman out on a date.

I almost didn't post because I was positive there would be disapproval from at least some folks. That's fine.

BD

[Gone Dancin']

I almost didn't post because I was positive there would be disapproval from at least some folks. That's fine.

Don't NOT post because some folks will show disapproval. Use their disapproval as a tool to help you better your focus, efforts, strategy, etc. Use what you think is relevant, and move on. Also, as you know, I'm sure -- sometimes we don't like people who disagree with or disapprove what we do because we know/fear they may be right.

Call this woman, ask her to go out to do something fun (no movies, but maybe a very casual dinner with a fun activity to follow -- or maybe just for drinks). Spending some 1 on 1 time with a woman who could become more than a friend might let you know just how ready you are to begin dating. I don't think it can hurt to do this just to see where your head and heart are, at least.

GD

[Heimlich]

GD,

Thanks. I've a good sense of self, what I want, what I need, etc. I do what I want to do in the best way I know how, regardless of approval/disapproval from folks. Always have. I don't mean that to sound as callous as it might come across, but it's true. While I prefer people to have a good opinion of me (who doesn't), my sense of who I am/self-worth comes from within.

I remember talking to my mom about my stepdad and why his BS didn't bother me. "He's nothing to me. Why should his opinion matter?" My mom. My W. My Pawpan. My girls. And my best friend. Those are the people who could (can for everyone but my W) really cut me with their disapproval and make my heart sing with their applause.

My head and heart are where they have been for the last two months, really. I prefer to reconcile with my W. In my heart of hearts, yes, I wish that to happen -- for my girls, for me, for my W. I don't think it is going to happen. While my W has many excellent qualities, like anyone, she has faults as well. I think those faults are going to be the reason our lives part. It just takes too much energy to NOT do something because she MIGHT come back. It's my life. I'll live it daily the best that I can.

BD

[oldtimer]

"Yes, at the end of the evening I spent with the group, we were all talking about our past Rs. She asked me if I were interested in reconciling with my W. I said, yes, open to it, but don't expect it to happen."

That's great. Being open and direct about these things is the best way to treat your potential date (or dates, lol) with decency and respect.

[Heimlich]

I gots lots of faults. Dishonesty isn't one of them.