I totally get everything you're saying LFL but this
Originally Posted By: LustForLife
I mean if he had told me last night that he was thinking of being with other people instead of vice versa, I would have been devastated. I wouldn't forgive him. But he does. He still wants us to go to counseling and work this out. I just dunno...
is simply a guy thing. "Thinking" isn't unforgivable to the guy because the "line" is the actual act. What you "think" doesn't mean much to most guys. To a girl, "thinking" means they're already emotionally over the line and that's worse.
I don't know much about your sitch and whether or not your're going to C with your H, but wanted to comment. My H has been LD for 20 years and it's been an issue. Not quite as bad as some sitchs (we do get together a couple of times a month), but it's typical of LD/HD M's. The same promises, struggles, passiveness, then anger from me and frustration.
We went to our C and discussed this for the first time last Mon. Our C point blank told my H that "her needs are her needs and your job is to meet them. If you can't then your job as a man is to admit this and let her go so she can be happy" I was surprised to hear him say this as my H has had some health probs and surgery. I told him that I could wait 6 months to see an improvement, but needed to know our physical R is a priority. His response was "Six months? That's too long to wait. Let's say three". Then he asked my H if he loved me, desired me and wanted to be M to me. H said yes and our C said "then what's your plan for meeting her sexual needs on a regular basis? That's what it's going to take to keep her as your wife"
I could tell that H was on the spot, but being told straight out that there's no excuse for not meeting your S's needs for intimacy and sex might work. Time will tell if it will work long term or not. We've been intimate every night since and H seems to have really enjoyed it. C also told him that I shouldnt have to mention it, ask for it or remind him. That a good H makes sure his wife is smiling if it's at all possible. I think there was something about another man telling him that he has a beautiful, intelligent wife that struck a nerve. He also told H that I'm asking for the bare minimum, nothing big, and that as an H, he should be able to do the "easy stuff" to make me happy. He asked if performance is an issue and said if it is there are things you can do. He told H to not wait until he feels like doing it.. to just DO IT and not think too much about it.
The only thing he told me is that I need to accept that my H's needs are different than mine. He said that H has agreed to meet my needs for intimacy and sex and I can't now start criticising his efforts.. such as coming back saying that it's not passionate enough, or I feel like he's going through the motions, etc. He said it's up to him to get it going and up to me to encourage the passion.
We shall see Just wanted to let you know that C might help and it's NOT OK for your H to not meet your needs. In effect he's holding you hostage in unhappiness. Not good!!!
It is one thing for a man to signal "I'm not feeling very manly right now and you aren't helping.". It's another thing for a man to signal "I'm not willing to be the man."
Nicely put. And when H left he clearly signaled the latter. Yuck. If he had chosen for former before he jumped ship, we might not be where we are today.
"Thinking" isn't unforgivable to the guy because the "line" is the actual act. What you "think" doesn't mean much to most guys. To a girl, "thinking" means they're already emotionally over the line and that's worse.
That's so true and very sad in a way. My H clearly doesn't realize how all this "thinking" could clearly lead to "doing." Duh! Do I have to f@ck some guy in front of him before he takes a hint!
I appreciate all your insights about counseling and "just do it" sex but I'm starting to realize that is just no where near the main issue. It's me. I cannot forgive. I clearly don't want to. I can't. It's been over 3 years and I am worse off in some ways than before. I've tried. I just can't.
It's not that he doesn't want to have sex with me as much as I don't want to have sex with him. I have no desire to "just do it" with him so...I usually don't. I still want sex though. That's the problem. Well, part of the problem, really I want a man who hasn't hurt me so much. It's as simple as that.
Our C point blank told my H that "her needs are her needs and your job is to meet them. If you can't then your job as a man is to admit this and let her go so she can be happy"
Holy sh!t! Do you think he has a sister in the practice? That's some pretty straightforward advice...especially for a first visit.
Of course, my W and I went to a MC for over a year and got zippo. The MC even told my W once that my physical "needs" were valid and that she should "ignore them at your peril."
Originally Posted By: LFL
Do I have to f@ck some guy in front of him before he takes a hint!
Reminds me of a joke, but...some other time.
Hairdog, who feels LFL's pain...although, she's apparently 'feeling no pain' already.
I cannot forgive. I clearly don't want to. I can't. It's been over 3 years and I am worse off in some ways than before. I've tried. I just can't. .... I still want sex though. That's the problem. Well, part of the problem, really I want a man who hasn't hurt me so much. It's as simple as that.
Seems like what you're saying then, is basically:
You enjoyed having sex with OM 2 years ago. REALLY enjoyed it, as opposed to the sex you've had with your H.
You enjoyed being in a "blank slate" relationship.
You figure that finding a new sex/romance partner, is going to be more enjoyable and less work for you, than fixing up your existing relationship with your husband, and working to build a positive sex dynamic between you like Sheila did with her H.
The feelings and wellbeing of your two children, are less important then item #3, above.
Does that about sum it up?
PS: if the pivotal issue for you, is really about, "you need to 'forgive', to work on this, but 'cant'"... I hear there's a book called "forgiving the unforgivable", that might help you with that, if you chose.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
Dom You are insufferable sometimes. Go analyze your own R/M and stop implying how wrong I am being and/or outright telling me how to fix mine. Have you ever heard of social/emotional intelligence? Part of it entails being able to read people's state of mind. I understand that can be more difficult over the internet, but you don't seem to have ANY ability to do that. Or you just don't give a crap, and that's no better.
Stop giving me your advice over this veil of judgement. I don't want it. Go away.
Nicely put. And when H left he clearly signaled the latter. Yuck. If he had chosen for former before he jumped ship, we might not be where we are today.
Well, although GP and I have parted ways for good reason, the man did have some relationship wisdom to share with me. One day as we were driving along and he was feeling up my thigh, he said "You know that the reason your H didn't want to touch you wasn't because he didn't find you attractive. It was because he didn't like you." Sometimes we don't like the person with whom we are in a LTR simply because they are such an accurate mirror of ourselves. The need to flee can be a need to no longer look at oneself through another's eyes. You H knows that he failed as a man when he abandoned his family and the fact is that he knows that you know. You can't will yourself ignorant but here's a question to ponder. Let's say it's a year from now and your H has met another woman and he is telling her about that incident in your marriage, do you believe that she would believe him if he told her he was truly sorry that he took that action in his life? Does he trust himself enough to earn the trust of someone other than you? If so, then I think that you should give yourself a chance to forgive him.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
The only thing he told me is that I need to accept that my H's needs are different than mine. He said that H has agreed to meet my needs for intimacy and sex and I can't now start criticising his efforts.. such as coming back saying that it's not passionate enough, or I feel like he's going through the motions, etc. He said it's up to him to get it going and up to me to encourage the passion.
Here is the part I struggle with. How can you refrain from being critical when all you get is the going through the motion sex? Hell, that makes me feel less close, less loved, etc than not having intimacy at all. I tried scheduling and she told me essentially the same thing. She would be game but I could not complain that it wasn't "real" or passionate. We got through exactly one day and I could not keep my end of the bargain.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
Just wanted to let you know that C might help and it's NOT OK for your H to not meet your needs. In effect he's holding you hostage in unhappiness. Not good!!!