This post is regarding the conversation described on 8 December.
Originally Posted By: sgctxok
I dunno. Maybe going off on him worked, contrary to my opinion.
I've been thinking about this for a few days now, mulling it over a bit.
Bear did give this explanation
Originally Posted By: phbear316
There was not raised voices during this conversation, it was a normal toned conversation, no yelling, even very little tears on my part. Only toward the end did i start to cry.
The initial assumption people make of these sort of events it...Backslide! This wasn't quite a Bitch-Mode vent, but the purpose still may be the same.
I don't like to make a judgment of Backsliding for these sort of things. They happen and it's done, but also, if done at the right moment and with self-control (or if you gain self-controlled during) these vents can be beneficial.
Now I do not recommend planning them--usually. The exception...what Jeanette is doing right now. But they are at adifferent stage and thus the circumstances are different. Jeanette needs to discuss subjects that may upset her MLCer. But it's gotta be done.
Sometimes coming to this forum and venting isn't enough, venting to your Mom, neighbour, cat...doesn't always help. In the beginning I did the Fake it 'Til you make it act. It was important, it helped. But Sweetheart knew it wasn't real. It bothered him. He didn't want to see me miserable, but I'd gone from normal perky to fake perky. At times he also felt like if I meant so much to him I would seem more hurt.
I learned to be Real--the very day after he told me he didn't like my fake perkiness.
Later, when I was happy and didn't need to fake it, but also firm on boundaries, Sweetheart sometimes told me I seemed emotionless/cold. Usually he said this after a burst of emotion that surprised him, but sometimes before. And any emotion--Bitch-Mode or Sad was important to him--anything not happy, but rather something showing I was bothered by the situation. He visited one day and his friend called on the cell, I thought it was the OW and yelled HI LOUD to her. He got mad, hung up--he'd thought it was his Mom! Later, his friend told him--it was about time I yelled at him. I did not feel cold. But Sweetheart was one of those who needed constant reassurance--my counselor had to remind me of this. Part of reassurance was showing through my emotions that I was not hapy with the situation--showing either through being sad or even angry--something!
Sad isn't a backslide, it's an emotion. Needy, desperate, begging is backslide. Anger isn't a backslide either; it's an emotion. It is waht you do with Sadness or Anger that can lead to a Backslide.
Sometimes our emotions 'push' our spouse away. But then aren't they choosing to Re-Act in that manner? But still, we could have had a different behaviour with a different reaction. When going of into an unplanned (or planned for that matter) Bitch-Mode Vent learn to pull also. Pulling is the reassurance phase that follows venting. I was hestitant to post this link, but as I reviewed what I want ot say here and what I wrote back when, I found myself wanting to repeat myself. The Space Beneath the Tightrope
I don't think what Bear did was a Backslide--because it sounded like a soft-toned conversation rather than Bitch-Mode. I have found that these can be helpful. And yet I want it stressed that I am not recommending these be planned...but if they happen... And there were planned occasions when I felt Sweetheart was cake-eating and things needed to change. I am a strong believer in knowing the rules/boundaries. That means I won't change a boundary without telling Sweetheart AND giving a valid reason--valid to me if not to him. Otherwise I seem unstable if I change rules on whim--as Jeanette's MLCer said she was when she was angry with him in the summer. Since we hold our emotions in check, our outbursts may appear to be instability because they are rare and may seem sudden.
So when Sweetheart was cake-eating--we were doing activities together (sneaking around riding bikes and such) while he lived with the OW. I felt like an OW. This was not fair to me or the OW--sure she made her bed, but I didn't want Sweetheart treating ANY woman or person that way. I planned to talk to him about it during the car ride to a Mt bike ride. I was calm, but he blew up. On that occasion I remained relatively calm. There were occasions where I did not plan anything and those I think were more Bitch-Mode, it is easier to control when planned.
But the change in Sweetheart after that was amazing--after he calmed down. He was actually better during the ride and drive home, but simply had calmed down from the emotions. But that week and later he treated me differently--more respect.
Bear experienced strangely nice behaviour following the discussion. Since it can go either way depending on the person and where in the process of crisis, I would not predict niceness. But I have seen it enough to know that it is not uncommon. On another occasion, the same person may have an opposite reaction. Who knows, but even then it may still positive in the long run--forcing a person to THINK.
Early on, I was amazed out how validating Sweetheart with my own apologies MIXED WITH why I was upset could result in overnight (literally) processing or progress. I spoke with my brother for several hours one night. I had not told him what was happening until then. And my messed up kid brother who can't get his own life straight to save anything gave me direct instructions on what to do. How could he do that--I wish he would take his own advice! But the next morning I did what he said when Sweetheart called--that or Sweetheart called later the same night--either way he called again about 8 hours later. And the change was...well it was incredible.
None of what I did on the conversation was a Bitch-Mode backslide. It was a lot of listening, but more than that it was showing I'd been listening prior to that particular conversation and I was now responding--so I think I did most of the talking. Probably a lot of Push/Pull. I told him what I had done wrong, how and why I was sorry. Not sure if I reassurd yet--this was his darkest phase away from and I refrained from telling him I was Standing and he could come home, as that would have been me not listening since he was never coming home.
But those conversations and those from later months did not stop what was happening either. Bear's conversation may not have pushed her husband away as some predicted, BUT that does not mean he will come BACK (actually forward) at this point either. If in crisis, he will must go through the processes to recover and discover those fragments of Self, thus he will continue to retreat. But he has something positive to process while in the Wasteland.
The important thing is to not have expectations for some immediate turn arounds...or if you feel him returning, do not expect it to last or not.
Keep Hopes High, but separate hope from Expectation.
