What you are say is making a lot of sense to me. I have been trying to define what pressure and smothering might would look like to her and I think those things fit in that category. Knowing what I know now about where we are in the R I don't think that she is ready to commit and ready to talk about OM at all.
So, I guess what I am saying is that I will take this good advice to heart. I will not give this list to her but I will develop it for my own use and for our potential use down the road. I will not talk about OM until she commits fully to the R.
I am trying to forgive but like I said earlier I am only human. God is the only one that can forgive and forget. Also, I feel as though I have not discovered the full truth and that does matter to me. I ultimately want an open and honest relationship on both our parts and having a few unanswered questions about OM is a big road block for me. I agree that it is not the time to have this conversation. Think you are right I_W, when she commits to the R I would need to have one conversation and one only about the OM and that would end it for me. Might be 1 too many. That conversation may hurt and I will hear some things that I do not want to hear but sometimes I feel it is necessary to take one step back in order to take two steps forward. I realize that the conversation about the OM would be only for my selfish reasons and not for the benefit of the relationship. However, it would help me move on if she could be honest with me on some things because unfortunately we really have never had the OM talk where you discover and answer some of the needed questions. I wish I was stronger so that I could let it go completly but unfortunately thus far I am not. Maybe if I suppress it for now I will strengthen. (Venting here I guess)
Anyway, any suggestions on what to do in the meantime. Her LL is quality time and quality conversation. Hard to accomplish that if I am gone doing GAL activities all the time. Thoughts?
Should I bring up any R talk at all? She has not brought it up and that has been her nature during our R. She is just existing right now. If I do bring up any R talk how much do I bring up and how often? Thanks!
ME-30 WAW-28 T-12yrs M-5yrs no kids Bomb 10/1/07 S-10/1/07
I'm not going to repeat the excellent advice you've been given. Print it out and read it over and over again. You're still too focused on what SHE's done to YOU. Be happy in and of yourself.
On the OM. Assume she effed him. Personally, I find the EA more disturbing and hurtful (as painful as my own W's PA/EA were for me). Assume the worst. Can you forgive it? Really, everyone says it, but it's true -- the OM is a symptom, not the cause of the problems in your M. So, can you take the responsibility for your actions that led her to where she would be in a place to have a R with another man? That's not to say that she's not at fault, she is. She chose that path. You keep saying you love your W. Do you love her enough to forgive her if she strayed?
You said you may hear things "one time too many." To me, that sounds like a PA is a dealbreaker for you. If so, that's fair. Only you can make that decision. If not, DB away, my man.
And, BS, you can forgive. It doesn't mean you forget, but you can forgive your W.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
In regards to what you DO say to your w... even if her LL is quality time, and your off GALing, I think it can still work to your advantage. You want her to have a chance to WANT you. If your not giving her that chance, how will she? You can still give plenty of quality time that is not smothering while you are GALing.
Just start working on you and quit focusing so much on what to do for her or with her. It usually ends up falling in place by itself.
I think you should not bring up R convos. even if she never did before. She's confused about it, and bringing it up is just going to be frustrating for her. that's not going to be a fun convo for her or you. So start GALing and having new types of convos and also convos inquiring about her. She said you never acted like you loved her because you didn't pay much attention to her, so now you can genuinely be interested in her and what she has to say. Encourage her and point out the good things about her. in a sincere and not in an overdo it way. Was it you that said you'd always say "I don't care, what do you want?" (sounds like me too, and I think it's a confidence problem in part) then how about cooking dinner for her one night without asking her "would you like this?" and just do it. Do like IW said (I hope correct me if I'm wrong guys) and be a man that makes a decision and takes charge.
and Heim is right, you CAN forgive, no matter what happened. and you have to if your going to get past this whether you get back with your W or not. just expect the worst, and make a decision to forgive her now. ask God to help you, we all need help sometimes. Also, you can't expect anything from her... that is the BIGGEST thing to remember. Just think of her as being ill right now, because really she is. You can't pull her out of her sickness, she's got to climb out herself, but you can definitely help show her the way. Show her by example...
If you don't start changing yourself- FOR YOURSELF (not her)- and you don't start GALing (which brings up your PMA) then your life will not be an example to her and she will continue on the same path she is in and eventually leave and possibly find a better life down the road as she starts learning what she needs and that she can't rely on someone else to make her happy.
BUT, if you start changing for yourself, becoming the best YOU that you can be, start enjoying your life, become confident, love yourself, and love others, then she will see this and although it will take time, she will want that for herself. She will become interested in you and your new life. Did she make a mistake after all? That is what you want. Really, your goal is to make her second guess herself. Cause probably right now she's just verifying to herself that it isn't going to work, but she's feeling very guilty and that's why she's back. So you want to confuse the heck out of her. Eventually, she's going to come around. But you have to be consistant, and you have to make the changes for yourself, otherwise they won't be real. Words don't make any difference to her, it's your actions that she's watching, and she's going to be watching if your changes are real or just to try to win her back.
does that make sense?
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Wow! Assume the worst and forgive that. Can I do that? I think that I can but I would have to think and pray on it. I really don't have a choice because I really love her and need her in my life. I think at some time during our R it will come up but for now I have decided not to bring up the OM or the R at all until she is ready. One day she will bring it all up if she is going to commmit and then we can talk about it if she wants. Until then I am going to explore and pray for for the true meaning of forgiveness. I brought home a single rose today and told her that I was sorry for not being very patient. We hugged and she said it was OK.
So...I guess we will run with this at her pace. It took her nearly 3 months just to decide if she was going to move back in and it is going to take a while for her to decide if she truly is going to commit. Until then...I also will learn the true meaning of patience. Today the C talked about patience. A friend talked to me about patience today and how I asked her for it early when she said she wanted a D. Then, we talked about patience tonight in bible class. I think I am getting the message. Sometimes we have to be hit over the head with a hammer to get it.
Thanks I_W, Heim, and S.T. for the wisdom. I will work on forgiving and patience. I will keep posts coming and let all know how the DB is progressing. I just want to be the best H I can be while she is letting me. We will see if I can do that. I do need more GAL activities though. Any suggestions for a guy in a small town?
Last edited by wawpioneer; 12/13/0703:05 AM.
ME-30 WAW-28 T-12yrs M-5yrs no kids Bomb 10/1/07 S-10/1/07
I'm not terribly religious, but a big amen to that
Hang in there. You can do this. That was a nice gesture with the rose and well-received it seems.
One quibble with what you wrote (and I'm going to cap this for emphasis, not shouting at you): YOU DON'T NEED YOUR WIFE. She is a preferance. A want. A gift. Until you are happy in you, you can't rely on someone else to fill that hole for you. Took me a while to really get that, and I'm still working on it, but it's really the key to attracting your W back.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
I have nothing to add. Just let me recap the important point in the last couple posts.
1. You don't need her - you want her. Remember the theme in 5LL - Love is a choice. Love your W not because of what she does for you, but in spite of what she does to you.
2. The fact that her LL is quality time makes GAL even more important. Do your GAL activities and extend the invite for her to join you, occaissionally.
3. I still debate having the OM discussion with my W and caution you. Fact is I know why it happened. I know it happened. And I don't think I need to know every detail. The way I see it, when my W says she wants to return to the M, she's given me the greatest compliment there is. Which is that she walked on the other side of the fence - and though the grass looks greener - she still came back.
4. Keep in mind GAL doesn't need to be places to go. These are not my ideas of fun GAL activities - but still some may enjoy them. I'm trying to address your "small town" comment. Restore an old car. Volunteer at a youth group. Be a Big Brother/Big Sister. Umpire Little League games. Stamp or Coin collecting. Take piano lessons. Ring the bell for the Salvation Army. Join the volunteer ambulance or fire department. Visit some historic sites.... dream a little waw-p. GAL is whatever you want to do. Visit a nursing home. Plant a garden. etc. It isn't necessarily a single activity or hobby - it's more of a lifestyle change.
Last edited by I_Wanna_Make_It_Work; 12/13/0708:27 AM.
Me - 43 and She -36. No kids. Married 7 yrs - Together 14 yrs
My W said that she is going to stay at her friend's house tonight. This is the same girlfriend that she had previously been staying with. Her friend is good for us and very supportive of us getting back together. Anyway, my W has been reading this book called "The Introvert Advantage". I thumbed through it and it discusses things like "down time". As soon as she said that she needed some down time I remembered what that book said. I wonder if she is putting too much emphasis on the Intro/Extrovert thing. We both took an online test and we both came out close to 60% Introverted. It feels as though she is using this whole Intoverted concept to justify her reluctance to reengage in the R. Is the whole Into/Extro concept more credible than what I am thinking or is this her excuse to try to explain why she does not want to let me in or through her emotional wall? C said that it probably would not help much for me to read that book but I could if I wanted too. He said that she is really not as introverted as she thinks she could be. I am not talking to her about it but I was curious what you guys thought. I personally think she is looking for reasons to not committ but she may just be simply trying to "find herself". Any thoughts?
ME-30 WAW-28 T-12yrs M-5yrs no kids Bomb 10/1/07 S-10/1/07
I don't know, but my opinion is that her intentions don't really matter cause it doesn't change you you have to do.
Even if she is totally committed to trying, you'll have to show her what a great guy you are and that being with you is where she wants to be.
If she's not committed and wants to make some excuse it's the same deal--show her this is where she wants to be. If she sees that enough then she may change her mind and decide she does want to be committed.
Now, maybe these two situations would require a different approach from you, but I don't know enough to say anything about that, perhaps someone else will chime in.
One thing I'm pretty sure of: if you try to argue that she's just making excuses with the introvert stuff that's not going to get you anywhere. I know you said you weren't talking to her about that, seems like the right move to me.
Me: 43 W: 41 Together 2009, Married 2011 Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5 Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
Eventually, she's going to come around. But you have to be consistant, and you have to make the changes for yourself, otherwise they won't be real. Words don't make any difference to her, it's your actions that she's watching, and she's going to be watching if your changes are real or just to try to win her back. 