I wanted to validate her feelings, but disagree that it's been for years. I'd like to remind her about what we had done this spring (we went on a trip) and how we had a great time together and that I felt love from her then. I also want to tell her that I believe she fell into these feelings this summer. That we had a crappy summer together and that this is the cause of all this. She may have had some issues years in the making, but the hardcore issues came up this summer. She's not a person to fake it or fake being happy for so long. If there were some long lingering problems, I am sure I would have heard more from her or would have been tipped off by her sister or friends. Its a long email about our past and answering a few objections about our relationship. One of which is were too different. I tried to lay out a point of view in which she looks at many of our married friends.
I dont know, I just feel like I need to lay a little more out on the line. It seems when I do this with her and we talk, sometimes it helps. Not sure if it's too much persuing or pleading. I guess thats what I'm worried about, but she seems to be getting farther away all the time. I want her to consider some things from me.
I am going dark to drumb up her feelings a bit. Make her think about me.
I'm no expert, but thought I'd chime in with the observation that most of what I've been seeing others emphasize in DB is that it is fruitless to challenge the spouse's version of reality or what has been happening in the M. My sense is that you would be best hanging on to your response as a personal journal item and just respond briefly to her to acknowledge receipt. Something like: "I'm really sorry you feel that way. I've had a real wake-up call and know that you and our marriage are very important to me. I've learned a lot and am committed to continuing my own growth. We can talk more when I get back from work." Maybe you could broach the topic of MC, even if just for working out the co-parenting issues. But, I would try to keep email discussions to a minimum.
me: 47 H: 48 he has 2 grown sons M 1995(my 1st, his 3rd) hit iceberg 6/07 S 9/26/07 before now
I will email W late tonight. I guess I will try to keep it brief and validate the best I can.
W emailed me today asking is she should file a missing persons report. I found that idea as strange. wanted to know if we could talk. she also said kids were wondering if I'd be back for xmas. she had a couple other lines that were attempting to make me feel guilty about being awol.
the end of the email stated she wanted to talk about developing a parenting plan asap. nice. shes really driving hard on all this and is not wavering at all.
I have obviously struck a bit of a nerve with her, but don't know if I'm doing the right thing.
Hi T, You asked me to stop in, so here's my thoughts after skimming over your thread...
Originally Posted By: seekpeaceofmind
I'm no expert, but thought I'd chime in with the observation that most of what I've been seeing others emphasize in DB is that it is fruitless to challenge the spouse's version of reality or what has been happening in the M. My sense is that you would be best hanging on to your response as a personal journal item and just respond briefly to her to acknowledge receipt. Something like: "I'm really sorry you feel that way. I've had a real wake-up call and know that you and our marriage are very important to me. I've learned a lot and am committed to continuing my own growth. We can talk more when I get back from work." Maybe you could broach the topic of MC, even if just for working out the co-parenting issues. But, I would try to keep email discussions to a minimum.
Nailed it! I could not have said it better myself.
T, as long as you have been at this, you have given the impression of being in an absolute panic. Everything had to happen NOW NOW NOW. Even now, when I see that you really ARE getting some of the DBing down, this is still going on. You are 'doing fine and not having R talks and all is OK' one day - and putting on the pressure and R talks the next. Over and over and OVER.
Let me tell you, your W does not perceive those one-day-long breaks from the pressure you apply as great days where everything is terrific. She probably spends them on pins and needles, waiting for the next needy, pushy outburst or R talk from you. This is the single biggest thing you need to change - and it has been for your entire sitch, from what I've seen. BACK OFF.
I do want to say again, you've made some terrific progress in other areas - GALing and PMA in particular. Keep it up! Still hoping the best for you and your sitch!
Rob
Thread #10 22 year M, MLC, Piecing since 1/07 Goal: Live with confidence & enthusiasm!
You walking and not communicating with her is EXACTLY what she means when she reference what she is not getting from you. Remember when she said "...want so much to have a partner to share everything with...I want to tell that person everything and want to be with that person all the time."
so I came home this morning after being sort of awol for a few days.
w said she was upset that she didn't know where I was or when I was coming back. said the kids were concerned. I told her she could have let the kids know I as working or something and diffused their worry. I think she was laying the kid guilt trip because she was worried. she even called me bf looking for me. she was concerned and I hope it revived some different feelings for her.
you guys are going to scorch me for this but it lead into an r talk.
I told her I needed some time for myself. I said I am upset about how she is rewriting the history or our relationship and using that to come up with this decision. I also said I don't really like hearing the "nevers" and "dones" type of talk. she agreed that she may be distorting us a bit.
I brought up that while I underdtand her feelings and am sorry to hear about them, that I doubt they could be this strong earlier than this march when we went on a trip together. she has said these feelings have existed for years. I also said she is not capable of doing something she doesn't want to. she agreed. thus, we had a nice trip in march and I know we loved each other on this trip. we had probably the best night of lovemaking in our history. I said she couldn't have done this if she was feeling this way.
while she may have had some issues before this, I felt we had a crappy summer as a couple. this is why were having issues.
and..because we had a bad summer and have laid all our issues on the table, that she would look at the big picture and imagine what's possible.
she said this whole thing is stressing her out bigtime. she feels terrible seeing how much this is hurting me. her stomach is bothering her and she has diarea. she is stressed out.
my other point was I was disappointed that she was giving up on me as a person and that I was not capable of being a better spouse. she said she has noticed all these changes I have made and shes happy for me.
I told her I believed she fell out of love with me because I didn't make her feel loved. she agreed.
one good thing came up as she admitted that we have been together for a long time and that of course she loved me. but..she was following her gut (i don't think she should follow her gut if she has diarea) and its telling her were over. she also thinks were opposites and too different, I'm too quiet, etc. the "differences" comment comes up a lot. not sure how to handle that. I replied that every couple has their differences and its a point of view in how serious you look at these. I mentioned she hasn't done one activity in the past couple months that I would have a problem doing with her. this includes going out to dinner, drinks, shows, skiing. she said "now you're interested"..I told her its not that I wasnt interested, but I just didn't take the initiative.
I said I have had a huge wake up call and I really get it that I need to make a bigger effort on us.
so..as she was leaving she brought it up again that our C thinks sometimes a seperation is beneficial. she really wants this and I'm sure is going to get it. she said I need to let go and if you love someone you should let them go, and if its meant to be, then they will come back. its very hard to let go.
how is she going to feel love from me or see what I can do or who I can be if shes not here?
how do I DB (though I'm terrible at it anyway) and show my love for her?
another problem is I'm 95% sure shes having an EA with someone at work. how do I deal with this? would it be completely taboo to take his wife to lunch and see if shes aware of this? I know I'm not going to get anywhere with W until this ends.
You might try to agree on some ground rules to give her the space she is asking for - whether it be separation or "in-house". You have to get into a place where you are not pursuing her or being retaliatory - both are counter-productive right now. You can show your love by being respectful and supportive. The guilt trip isn't going to work for you. If she will agree to "dates" then you have some time together without any demands, expectations or pressure.
It would be a very bad idea to talk to her friend's wife. You just have to detach and work on you. Maybe you could get out and do your own activities - if you are interested in skiing, shows, etc, then go on your own.
me: 47 H: 48 he has 2 grown sons M 1995(my 1st, his 3rd) hit iceberg 6/07 S 9/26/07 before now
Sort of an interesting weekend. I could tell me being away without her knowing where I was really bothered her and drummed up some feelings in her for me. I could tell by when she said 'Of course I love you', and 'you didnt tell me where you were' comments a few times...
Friday night I went out with a buddy, she stayed home. Her carousing seems to have slowed way down. Dont know why this is. Wondering if she's trying to be responsible again as she's working with a lawyer and wants to be designated as the primary parent. Wonder if thats the advice she was given, to slow down a bit...
I guess if you look back through my thread I have a history of doing this. I slid into my wifes bed late at night. She immediately rolled over, put her arms around me, and started kissing me. I was shocked to say the least but I guess this is what I was hoping for by sliding in there. But, a couple minutes into this she rolled back over and didnt want me touching her anymore. Bummer.
In the morning she said she didnt want me coming into her room anymore and she'd let me know when she was ready to be intimate. I have heard this comment a few times 'I'll let you know when I'm ready', or 'Not right now'...Is that a positive look into the future? I replied to her saying she's the one that started the kissing, she kissed me back. She said she was freightened and asleep. No chance of that. There was a lot of emotion there. Seems like thats what she wanted to do but needed to stick to her 'plan'.
I told her I am still very much in love with her and am interested in working on us. But, it seems you have no interest and have this EA working. Thus, I think you should plan on leaving asap. She said she has seen a lawyer and is planning on doing this after xmas. My problem is she's persuing a legal separation and would like to buy a house. This could take awhile and our current situation at home where she's cold to me and has no interest is very difficult. The buying a house idea seems like a permanant idea. I hate that. If that happens, I think were doomed.
While we were talking, i brought up the wedding ring thing again. I noticed since Friday that she hadnt been wearing her rings. So I asked her if she was done wearing them. She said no, she had just put lotion on her hands.
Saturday...went to sons basketball game. She wouldnt sit with me nor really even acknowledge me. No rings on. Met her at home. I got dressed up in a new shirt, etc. to go to an xmas party. She stayed home with the kids again. Didnt mention one thing about my shirt or ask where I was going. Just a 'have fun'. She seemed down when I left. She has usually been the one leaving me at home with the kids. Dont know why she seemed down. My son told me they all went to bed pretty early.
On Sunday, we were scheduled to go to her sisters house to celebrate Xmas with all her kids and parents. Her parents leave for the holidays so they usually do it early. I noticed no rings again in the morning, so I asked her 'are you all finished wearing your rings'...She answered, 'Yes, most likely, thats what separated people do'. I told her I dont think I'm going to go with you over with your parents. She came into my office a bit later and asked what I was going to do. Told her I was thinking about it and upset about the ring thing. Said I am committed to our marriage and that we are still married, we are not done, we are just going through a tough time right now. She said she would really like me to come. So...I did go.
Sunday and this morning to me she seems to be very distant and cold again. If I'm measuring what works for me, somehow the being away for a few days had an effect. But I dont want to do that again. Whats conflicting to me is I'd like to be very nice to her, and be present with her all the time around the house. That way when she does leave, she may miss that. She may miss me being around and being reliable for her. On the other hand, sort of wondering do I pull way back and be very quiet?
I know I'm going to get scorched on my DB'ing....Im just not that good at this. Our sitch is really tearing a hole in my stomach. I just dont get my WAW. Seems theres always a different reason or something else that bothers her about me. It seems we get along very well. I can see the emotion in her eyes for me. I can tell she's confused by what happened last week and over the weekend. If she's confused, how can she make a decision like this?
W just came out looking stunning and smelling wonderful....heading out to do some work and meet some friends for lunch.
I told her how nice she looked and how well she smelt...she couldnt even look me in the eye when i did this. She did say thanks, but couldnt even look me in the eye...I hate that. Why cant the WAW do that? guilt? or do they not want the compliments from me, only EA?
W sends me email yesterday asking if it's o.k. for her to go to Mexico in January with a female friend.
I will be gone for work the week prior and she wants to leave the next day.
Why does this bother me? She has been to NY, Vegas, Orlando, Denver, SF, Canada, Tokyo, since end of July. Some vacations, some work...usually by herself or w/ friends or work friends. I guess I dont understand how she/we can afford all this. I dont understand why she feels like I am the designated nanny for her.
It makes it difficult on me for work to be here by myself why she goes on vacation. And, I guess what's really interesting to me is why is she seeking my approval? She has said she's moving out of here in Jan. Doesnt look like it based upon this.
I really feel like she's taken advantage of me and feel she's in total fantasy land. Wonder who else is going on this trip?
