I can really feel you right now. My kids are 8 and 6 too. This is just SO PA of your H. Crazy Eddie is spot on and I think his advice is perfect. By saying that you will be getting laid soon or that you will be moving out - whichever - you are rattling the cage big-time. You have to wake him up from his cozy little fantasy land where he gets to be "best friends" with his W without actually having to do anything. That is what SO annoyed me when my H back-pedalled he was doing the exact same thing your H is doing making YOU responsible for the break-up.
Rattle that cage good and hard girl, it's working for me.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
perhaps I am not getting the tone well enough but I hear you saying a couple of contradictory things. On the one hand you say that he wishes the sex life was different and on the other hand you say that you don't find him attractive and have no desire to have sex with him.
He wishes things were different really means "I wish you didn't put so much emphasis on sex in our M." He's just not into sex that much. He's not completely against it or anything, but he cruised through our separation without much a problem at all. He went about a year without it. Never had any desire to get it. He told me flat out. I think that is strange. I was climbing the walls 4 or 5 months into our separation and decided enough of this BS. Found a perfect guy to meet that need at that time in my life. The sex was incredible. I guess I needed to prove to myself that it was not ME completely. That I was sexy and sexual, still, after being in a sex-starved R for so long with H.
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how can a man who has less drive than you (and probably feels less of a man because of it) possibly work on fixing things when he senses that he is not desired and is unattractive? I mean, I am much more highly driven than my wife and I will stop in the middle of sex if I get the feeling that it is just "duty" sex devoid of desire. How can he possibly be the sexually assertive and confident man that you want under these conditions? In my world I can rationalize that my wife doesn't desire me because she doesn't desire anybody. Your H must have thoughts of "she desires others but I am simply not good enough".
Those are all valid points. And I cannot argue against them, other than to say my H was the one to say he was not sexually attracted to me first. He did that right after the separation when I attempted to woo him back with my feminine charms. He turned his head and couldn't even bare to kiss me. Do you understand how humiliating that was for me? I don't know how some of you guys do it. As a woman, I cannot be happy with or sexually attracted to someone who shows no attraction in return. A R has to go both ways, especially a M. So it's a vicious circle of hurt and disinterest on both our parts. We just can't break out of that. Boy have we tried. So I'm not blaming him. I am just as guilty here. It is what it is.
You might want to mention that leaving you sexually frustrated with no intention to do anything to fix that combined with a demand not to get it elsewhere is also a "dealbreaker".
This would all be easier to figure out if he just flat out refused to have any sex with me. But he is still willing to have sex about once a month. Sometimes it is pretty good in fact. Well, he is attentive enough to get me off but when it's "his turn" he likes to have IC but he goes so fast it's over in like two minutes. I've talked to him so many times about just relaxing a bit, slowing down, etc and he never even attempts to do so. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe just sexual immaturity or something. He shows no interest in blowjobs or anything else. It's all very "vanilla." I'm not motivated by vanilla anymore. At this point I'm looking for chocolate.
I know a couple that created an apartment in their basement, and the Husband lives there, and they take care of their children together. Both the wife and husband have real issues.
Gads, LFL. My S sounds like a female version of your spouse. She's been in a boring, routine sex mode for a long time and she's not much interested in changing.
Scott
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
Corri - Thanks for the hugs. And sorry to hear you are going through your own R problems. MJ is right, boys have cooties.
Fran
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I can really feel you right now. My kids are 8 and 6 too. This is just SO PA of your H. Crazy Eddie is spot on and I think his advice is perfect. By saying that you will be getting laid soon or that you will be moving out - whichever - you are rattling the cage big-time. You have to wake him up from his cozy little fantasy land where he gets to be "best friends" with his W without actually having to do anything. That is what SO annoyed me when my H back-pedalled he was doing the exact same thing your H is doing making YOU responsible for the break-up.
What's with all the people having major R/M problems lately? Sorry to see you are in a similar sinking ship. And I hear you about "rattling the cage" but I'm so over trying to make this M into something it isn't and never was. Is my goal just to salvage the M or is my goal to have a R that combines both love and sex together the way I think it should be. It's the latter at this point so I am seriously thinking of getting out. I'm too stressed to think about fine details until after the holidays though.
Karen You are really the person I should be talking to here. That "friends" dynamic seems to be the case with you and your H as well. I know you said you would never leave, maybe because you have been through a D before and your new H is obviously a million times more stable than your ex. But...how do you do it? Are you worried about what will happen when the kids get older? That is probably my biggest thought regarding Staying in the M. What happens when the kids aren't the glue holding us here? I am living in fear of having regrets later in life, like "why didn't I leave earlier?" It's so painful at times. Obviously I am not happy now. I hope you are at least finding happiness in other parts of your M that will keep you strong. But boy it sucks sometimes doesn't it?
Those are all valid points. And I cannot argue against them, other than to say my H was the one to say he was not sexually attracted to me first. He did that right after the separation when I attempted to woo him back with my feminine charms. He turned his head and couldn't even bare to kiss me. Do you understand how humiliating that was for me? I don't know how some of you guys do it. As a woman, I cannot be happy with or sexually attracted to someone who shows no attraction in return. A R has to go both ways, especially a M. So it's a vicious circle of hurt and disinterest on both our parts. We just can't break out of that. Boy have we tried. So I'm not blaming him. I am just as guilty here. It is what it is.
LFL
I'm pretty sure everyone on this board is familiar with that kind of humiliation. You talk of a vicious cycle so obviously you are aware that your statement of "As a woman, I cannot be happy with or sexually attracted to someone who shows no attraction in return." could be turned around and be an accurate representation of his thoughts as well. I'm also aware that you are not looking for a pep talk but you described yourself as "cute, in shape, intelligent, nice, and a good catch". Back when you were attracted to your H how would you describe him? What (if anything) besides the lack of desire on his part caused him to be unattractive to you? Perhaps it is sexist on my part but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea of the LD male that doesn't have some underlying cause. I'm LD for my W now, but I've got a fairly good handle on why I am and what would need to be done to change that.
I know it sucks to always be the one to swim against the tide, but a vicious cycle needs someone to stand up and break it. This is a cycle that could be reversed.
I've thought a lot about cultures that have arranged marriages. Is it that they marry without being in love or is it that the ceremonies and rituals during the brief meeting and courtship stage are conducive with falling in love? We humans have a tremendous capacity to fall in love. At Retrouvaille, my W and I did not go over anything in our R that we had not gone over a hundred times before, but the atmosphere and the intimacy of being in the group caused us to finally hear each other and it really did seem that we fell in love again. It didn't last, but it was real.
You see the cycle spiraling downward. Something has to happen. It could mean leaving is the only choice or it could mean some other drastic (or at least unfamiliar) ways of breaking the cycle need to be applied.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
LFL - we don't have any kids at home to be concerned about and the lack of SL does drive me crazy at times - mainly because I wonder if he isn't getting it at home is he having another A but the signs are not there to support that. He is just not into sex but I am doing whatever I can to change his opinion.
However, there has been no SL for over two years so I am thinking maybe, just maybe he has forgotten how to do it? Hardly - he just doesn't care for it, period!! But, am I willing to leave - no. I have been down the D route before and I am trying to avoid it yet again. Everything else in our M is satisfactory so it is a lot to give up just for sex. The jury is still out on that one
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
