WAW staying, I'm leaving to give her space..(2)

[jab]

Starting new thread, only took 2 weeks for the original one to fill up

Moved alot of things into my new (luxury prison cell) today while W was sleeping. S6 D7 had fun with me in my new place, loved daddy's new furniture

W was still pretty upbeat when she woke up. I tried very hard to have PMA and act ASIF around W. She noticed, said to me that I looked like I was doing pretty well today. (I was crying like a baby, when I was alone in kitchen cooking dinner, had to keep it to myself).

Noticable improvement in R over past couple days. Trying to keep PMA but worried that things will go down the drain when I move out. One noticable difference today was that in conversation, W asked me 'if you do come back what are we going to do with the furniture you bought?'. 'What are we going to keep?' Subtle things like that were HUGE to me, but I kept thinking to myself 'don't get your hopes up yet'. This is why I became emotional when I was cooking dinner, I was trying my best not to take any of those comments too seriously. WAY too early.

One thing that really has been confusing me that maybe someone may have an opinion or shed some light on. It's about the whole OM/A possibility that I uncovered but didn't tell my W about. Obviously it shook her up pretty significantly. Obviously W panicked (IMHO she burned the phone bill, ashes in bottom of trash can), and she insisted on cancelling the IUD appt stating she didn't want me to think she was cheating (although she could have rescheduled, I'd never know). W's attitude about D seemed to change pretty significantly after this episode. I don't understand what happened. I never told her I knew, why the positive change in W's attitude?

It sucks a little because I'm still worried whether A is ongoing and this attitude change is a 'front'. On the other hand, maybe A was an 'experimental' thing that didn't go anywhere. Maybe it was just an EA? I know it doesn't matter but I'm still curious. Do you think the answers to any of this will EVER be revealed? Honestly, I can understand it, I forgive it. I don't even care at this point (she could've screwed this guy's rocks off for all I care) as long as it isn't ongoing and W keeps opening up to me.

One other question(I probably know answer already). Should I and when to ask W about MC again. I would like to bring it up before sentencing on Tues because I have to schedule it with court. How important do the experts think it is to get W in there ASAP? If I don't get something setup by Tues, I'll have to wait 60 days to do it. Any thoughts?

Overall, if W's changes stick I think this week was a HUGE win!

p.s. - I know alot of talk about W and not myself. The win regarding myself is that I'm not scared to move anymore. I'll be ok, my GAL can begin then. Actually, the GAL started with the move. Like everyone has been telling me, my biggest problem is trying too hard to 'fix' R and talking too much! I plan on reading several books (including DB/DR) over the next 2-3 weeks.

[jab]

Should I and when to ask W about MC again. I would like to bring it up before sentencing on Tues because I have to schedule it with court.

Here's a thought, a possible answer to my own question:
Should I just schedule IC/MC for myself and tell W that I'm going to start going for myself and if she'd like to go to one with me she can?

[FA]

How important do the experts think it is to get W in there ASAP? If I don't get something setup by Tues, I'll have to wait 60 days to do it. Any thoughts?

Don't need an expert to answer that one....she will go only if SHE wants to. You can't force her and can't enforce the thoughts for her to go.....I know you would love to but it ain't gonna happen unless she reall wants to go.....nice gesture though.

[FA]

So....after reading the rest of your post....the only thing you can do is keep that A and the knowledge of the OM in your head....if your W wants to spill the beans and come clean....she will. It will be her decision to talk. Everything that she has done MAY be a sign of remorse, guilt....but like you are guessing....it could just be a front to sort of test the waters on her own feelings by howing you that nothing is going on and possibly thinking that she may have to lay low with this other guy. Losing sleep.....comes with the territory on all this.....weight-loss too. I think you are doing great with the kids...they should be your main focus. They are your life right now....your W has her demons she will be dealing with. Be the best Dad you can be and that is what really matters at the end of the day. Snooping????? Well, I'm sure you have read where that has gotten a lot of the posters here.....NOWHERE but being pissed and angry of what they ahve found and confirmed.....and with some....it just about blew everything that they had been working for as far as DBing....never a good thing.

[jab]

it ain't gonna happen unless she really wants to go.....nice gesture though.

I understand this. So I guess I setup the C for me. If/when W is interested, it will be setup & ready. I think W is interested at this point but I want her to feel no pressure about it whatsoever.

if your W wants to spill the beans and come clean....she will. It will be her decision to talk.

I must be learning because I understand this, too. I was only wondering if it will ever come out, that's all. IMHO when W called me at work on Fri she was ready to do this. I think I missed the opportunity because I was at work, then she had to work that night.

IMHO W showed genuine interest in saving M the other day, she expressed genuine interest to get back to happy times with me. I don't think she was acting. IMHO if W is still hiding an A, it's probably because she doesn't want to ruin chances with me, W believes that if I catch her cheating/dating/whatever she did/is doing that I won't want her/the M anymore. OM is probably her 'secondary/backup plan'.

W has been trying to talk about her nights at work now, she WASN'T for weeks. She may not be telling me everything but at least she's making a cheerful attempt at communication. That's a step in the right direction. I'm just going to keep the OM/A info to myself for now, even my mother suggested that! I'll keep working on me, PMA, act ASIF, GAL, educate myself more, see what happens, see where my next opportunity for positive change comes. IMHO, I don't think I'll have to look very hard to find it..

[GFI]

Jab

I think you are pretty close in your sitch to mine. I think the PMA and GAL work is much easier when concentrating on me and not W and OM. I have had to have a severe word with myself about snooping and specualtion about OM cos it sent me into downward spiral before. You've come a long way in a short period of time and are developing some great insights I think. Leave the OM issue alone and if you are going to have a positive R again with your W this will in large measure be down to her choosing and not you forcing. More OM talk / enquiries will not help her feel in control or in a position to choose.

On the C issue even you mentioning this to her I think could make her feel rushed. By all means I think you go but perhaps not even mention it.

Best, GFI

[jab]

Nothing really new today. Still moving my stuff to new apt. Tue is sentencing so I am pressed on time. Tomorrow will be very busy for me. I believe the impact should start hitting W soon since there are alot of items are starting to be 'missing' around the house (My stuff that has/being moved to new apt). I am leaving a few things in the house since I will be spending the weekends there mainly for kids sake.

W continues being talkative about work. Seems cheerful. No intimacy at all though which hurts. She now seems uncomfortable looking at me when getting in shower and vice versa. At least I notice it now, it might have been that way for awhile but we rarely pass each other in bathroom lately. I think things have just been stagnant since Friday. At least they haven't deteriorated any. Like I said, she's still talking and not acting angry or stressed out anymore.

Plans are W is still going to spend day (sentencing) with me on Tuesday. She plans on visiting my new apt for first time that afternoon after I get the 'ankle bracelet' secured to me.

Tomorrow night is the last night I get to be with her before we live in seperate places. I hope I don't get too depressed or emotional and start screwing up. I want to make her last moments with me before S something nice, something she will want more of. There is so much I want to say to her but can't right now, so many things I want to do with her but can't right now, I see her everyday but miss her so much if you know what I mean. 16 years is a long time, I don't want this to be an ending to our R/M, but a new beginning. I'm very sad on the inside but still acting ASIF on the outside and trying to have PMA.

It's kinda strange, right now I don't even want to date other women. They could be 'hot' and everything but I still consider my W my 'soulmate'. She knows more about me than even my mother. I really hope I'm doing the right thing, that this S moves along swiftly and has a positive impact. Like I said in previous posts, I think she is more beautiful now than when we met, I love her more now than I ever did and it's not just because I think I'm going to lose her (it's so ironic). I long for the day that W may be able to give me affection and love again, the day that we can share experiences and have fun together like we used to.

On the other hand, looking forward to my own place. It is small, I'll be lonely most likely for 60 days. But, it will be quite the place for my friends to hang out and watch movies, play video games, listen to music, all the guy stuff that I have been missing out on for the past couple of years. I can do whatever I want with my free time and plan to. I have alot of 'projects' that I want to work on. I just want to get this part of my life into the past and move on to better days. I have alot of old friends coming 'out of the woodwork' that want to visit me there and hang out. I hope W will want to 'hang out' with me sometime, too

[COG]

Jab,

I think you're doing a great job DBng. Your W is settling down because YOU are not fighting her. If you were crying, begging to stay, pleading with her, defending your past, trying to fix her, accusing HER of an A, believe me she would be in a very different world right now.

Regarding the phone bill. Maybe she was in a fantasy state about having an A and her seeing that phone bill might have snapped her right out of the dream and back in to reality. One thing for sure, you'll know eventually if she's having an ongoing affair. She won't be able to hide it forever so it's not necessary to snoop for it.

The new apartment will be exciting for the kids, but reality is going to set in when they are at your house missing mom, or vice versa. Be prepared to empower them, listen to their frustrations and validate. I know they're very young but they can speak clearly if you'll listen. It's a good time to teach THEM how to pray.

W continues being talkative about work. Seems cheerful. No intimacy at all though which hurts. She now seems uncomfortable looking at me when getting in shower and vice versa. At least I notice it now, it might have been that way for awhile but we rarely pass each other in bathroom lately.

That's pretty typical Jab. Unfortunately, that's one of the toughest fallout's of the breakup, especially for men.

I don't want this to be an ending to our R/M, but a new beginning

That's is exactly what you have my friend. There's no going back. The old M is dead though, so you might as well bury it. It's done, over, dead forever. It didn't work. The only way to stay together now is in something brand new.

Sorry but here comes a 2x4

I'm just going to keep the OM/A info to myself for now, even my mother suggested that!

Your mother????????? Are you kidding me? You told you mommy that your W might be having an A? Bad move. You do need a C. Find a good C to discuss your personal business with and keep your extended family OUT of it. It'll just come back to haunt you. Here's a very important rule along those lines. DO NOT ENLIST FRIENDS OR FAMILY TO HELP YOU. A good C yes, you mom NEVER!

This is a very private repositioning between you and your W. Mostly having to do with YOUR bad behaivior. This needs to stay private, loving, honoring, and respecting your W. Your family should know where YOU are living, what YOU are doing, etc., but do not discuss details or stratedgies with them. It's very private. You'll be protecting your future R from unnecessary resentments from your family.

But, it will be quite the place for my friends to hang out and watch movies, play video games, listen to music, all the guy stuff that I have been missing out on for the past couple of years......I have alot of old friends coming 'out of the woodwork' that want to visit me there and hang out.

This sounds like the desires of a little boy. Possibly attractive to a young girl, but most likely not a grown woman. Kid's "hang out", grown ups use precious time to find new dimensions.

You're on the right track, but you still have much growing up to do. Best pray about it. Ask God what He wants you to do. I'm especially concerned about the company you keep. You'll learn in AA that the company you keep is one of the most important choices you'll make.

God Bless,

COG

[GFI]

I thought same about the "hanging out" reference. Just has a ring to it that may not turn out to be particularly productive and may well be counter to where you want to go...

GFI

[jab]

Sorry about the 'hanging out' reference. Hey, sorry some of my hobbies don't sound very productive. You don't understand my past. One of the social issues I/we have had is that our house is kind of isolated from friends (we live in the mountains). My apt is closer to my friends so they can 'visit' me more conveniently. That's all I was saying. It will be easier for me to have a social life. Some of my hobbies may sound 'boyish' but I am an avid music lover, I have a goal of learning how to play piano, even if it's only a little, during this time to myself (my wife is a pianist, i have a midi keyboard/synthesizer). I 'tinker' with electronics, computers and an avid video gamer. I have a nice TV and home theater system. These enable to me to achieve a few of my goals: 1) GAL 'socialize', rebuild old friendships' 2) learn how to play an instrument and 3) keep my mind off drinking and R. I don't see anything wrong with these.

Yesterday was fairly uneventful but there were a few key items. First, wife seemed very down last night. She was pretty distant as far as any intimacy. W initiated R conversation probably because it was my last night before moving out. I did my best to validate her feelings. W was fairly open and the conversation went well, no arguing. I'm trying to understand her position more and I think I do. She gave me some specifics on some elements that she feels are 'attractive' in a man that she doesn't see in me right now. Confidence, strength (emotional), outgoing, independence. W expressed she wants our R/M to work out but still doesn't trust me and hopes there isn't too much damage to fix. We went to bed & got a hug/kiss but didn't force the issue. Overall, a decent night.

Today was sentencing day. I won't be going to house during IHD after all, couldn't work it out with judicial system. That was too bad, but I still see the kids at my place. I hope it doesn't negatively impact R with W, that she still calls to talk and visits once in awhile, taking it 1 day at a time right now. I was reluctant to have W tote me around to do what I had to do today but it was the most logical and economical solution. My worries were not unfounded. W was having a hard time with all the court proceedings and bookings. She verbalized this afterwards telling me she was angry at me all over again because she saw no 'successful people', only 'derelicts' around. W said it was hard for her because today was reinforcing her image of me as a 'loser'. Once again, I validated, thanked her for doing this for me today, symapthized with her, I defended myself once saying 'my crime was 8 months ago, that was the person I was then, not now'. I think it made her feel a little better.

We went to get groceries together after booking, etc. (I now have monitoring equipment on for IHD). She had a cart, I had a cart. It was very strange and I could tell she was still in some distress but I didn't try to 'crowd her'. I just got what I needed for apt and let her do her thing in store. We paid together and she took me to my apt. This is where things improved. W liked the apt alot (W's first time at new apt). W had some time to kill so she helped put groceries away, I told her to make herself comfortable, she was my 'guest'. Well, this is where things got 'pleasantly strange'. All of a sudden, she wanted to have sex?!?! So I couldn't pass up the opportunity and we did. Wasn't the best but pretty good, much better than we have had in months. W totally caught me off guard. W didn't seem to have any regrets, she was a little worried that I would start thinking things, that it 'meant something', that I would start calling her. I basically said that I'm not going to try to analyze it too much. I'm still going to give you some 'peace' and not try to start calling you and pressuring you. I said as far as it meaning anything, that's up to you whether it means anything. I'm just glad for the opportunity and help today. W left and everything seemed ok (except for the obvious R issues).

So, there you have it. Now we live in 2 seperate places. W said last night that she might do C in Jan after holdiays. I said, that's fine whenever you want. I have other things to do to keep me busy for the time being. I have some more unpacking to do and then I'm off to class tonite. Afterwards, I'll do more unpacking and hopefully get some books on order.

P.S - Oh one more thing that REALLY caught my attention today, something that W emphasized in conversation. W said to me 'So, you can't drink on probation for 15 months, right?' She said it like it was a question but I knew the 'hidden meaning'. I said, 'Yes, that's right'. I could see the importance of that single statement. NO TOLERANCE FROM W, I can't f*** that up or it's a death sentence to R/M!