not a peep

[Dom R]

and do you know what he said back "Didn't we just get paid?" (Emphasis from me.) He just bought upgraded AAA for the me, DD and himself. Those are good qualities. Telling me that we could get back together in the future...not so sure about that 'quality'.

sorry to say this Trixi.. but I think you're reading too much into that one.
you may have to "let go" more.

[Trixi]

I am finding it difficult to remain angry with him.

Yeah, I know I need to "let go" more. Anger would help nudge that along, I think.

I can see where this might very well be the "best" thing for me-the thing that pushes me out of my comfort zone and makes me grow and address my childhood issues.
But it hurts so much. And I miss him so much. But how can I be "mad" at someone just because they don't love me like a spouse should?

It breaks my heart and makes me feel a bit like a "loser", that somehow I am not good enough to love as more than a best friend. I feel flawed and rejected. I just wish I could be mad about it.

[Dom R]

I feel flawed and rejected. I just wish I could be mad about it.

I think that there are two "most common" reactions that people have, and that they depend on the person's self esteem:

High self-esteem: Anger. "How could they treat ME this way? !!!"
Low self-esteem: Misery. "I'm so worthless they dont want me"

Most people probably cycle through both, at one point or another.



And then, there are "other" viewpoints. Such as,
"I have done/am doing what I can, to be a good spouse.
If they still arent interested... well... that's their choice to make. "
[This is a specific path to being able to "detach"]

I think this viewpoint, when taken up fairly, comes from both accepting the other person as an individual, and also being secure from the knowledge that you are "doing all you can".

When you can truly and honestly say and know that you are doing all you can; I've found that it helps detach from the pain of rejection.
When you can truly accept that the other person is a separate individual, and you dont control them; i've found that it helps detach from the anger of rejection.

There is a danger in taking on this attitude: I think that this viewpoint can be abused, when people "convince" themselves that they are doing all they can, when in reality, they are doing very little. I've seen people use the "i've done all i can" thing, as an excuse and self-justification to feel good about themselves throwing in the towel, when in reality, there is lots more they could do.

Other than that, though.. i think that this is a pretty good, positive way to deal with this type of situation.

[NikB]

But it hurts so much. And I miss him so much. But how can I be "mad" at someone just because they don't love me like a spouse should?

It breaks my heart and makes me feel a bit like a "loser", that somehow I am not good enough to love as more than a best friend. I feel flawed and rejected. I just wish I could be mad about it.

Reminding me of myself once again... I can sure relate to all this.

I feel awful for the people in the really volatile, angry, ugly situations - I sure don't want to trade places! But in some ways I think that does make it easier to let the other person go. It's harder when you see that they are a good person, you know (deep down) that you are and you feel you've done everything you can - and yet STILL your M is not working.

Dom, good points about the healthy attitude/path and on sometimes using that as an excuse / self-justification too. It's tempting when you just get sooo darn worn out. I've had that happen to me and it's always good to step back and look objectively (as much as possible) first.

Trixi - how are you doing??

[Trixi]

Thanks for checking in Nikki. And Dom, thanks for your thoughts, too.

Nothing new has happened since he came over Saturday; except for the brief IM "conversation" we had about whether or not I wanted the couches he has. I don't really want them- we got them like 8 years ago, they aren't that comfortable anymore and, well, I would prefer something cushier and in 'todays' style. However, since I am worried about $$, I am going take them for now.

I feel blessed with the number of people who have offered to help me move. People have been inquiring about how I am doing and what's going on in my sitch and probably 95% of the people have offered (I did NOT ask) to help me move. (The couple people who haven't offered are not capable of actually helping.) And most of the people who volunteered to help me move actually wanted to know the specific date I am moving; IOW, they're serious about their offer.

Anyway, it made me think back to when H moved out and it was just his stepfather who helped him. My H was critical of me and sort of implied that I don't have enough "friends". Seems to me I have plenty of the type of friends that REALLY matter. I have clients (now friends) who are giving me a Bosch front loader W/D set. I have clients (now friends) who are inviting me all sorts of places. The BF had me make a special necklace for the GF for her birthday. I have clients (now friends) who invited me to go to China the next time they go, and also to their "Friends and Family Reunion" cruise next August. And then there are my longtime friends who call to check in, invite me to do stuff, etc. I am so very blessed.

I picked up the book Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends and even though I am only a little ways into it, I can see that this book is going to help me A LOT. It offers a lot of hope on how to go (and grow) thru this ordeal.

I think I am still in denial because I haven't started packing. I know that 2 weeks from TODAY (eek!) the Door to Door company will be dropping off my containers for me to fill up. I should be sorting,purging, packing and staging the boxes for an easy transition into the containers. But no. I am agonizing over what bedding set I should get. HA!

It's getting easier for me. I'm not crying as much and I recover more quickly when I do. I still miss him like crazy and feel very jealous of whomever he should direct his affections towards. (I feel like I taught him a lot and that someone else will be getting the benefits.)

He has planted a big seed in my head/heart with his "nothing is forever" philosophy. I've had first hand experience with it already from the XBF who got married (and annulled), so I am well aware that people change their minds. H has purposely planted this same seed, then watered it and fertilized it (by talking about it in 3 separate convos.) The DB success stories also promote the idea of reconciliation even after D. I can feel myself dragging around this idea like a ratty old security blanket.

H wants to celebrate Christmas before he leaves with DD and myself. I said I would do it, but there is a part of me that is saying "WTF? Are you crazy?!" How am I going to "celebrate" with the person who is ripping out my heart? My mom seems to think it sends a bad message to DD. That I am telling her it is "ok" to be treated badly. ...Am I being 'treated badly' or is it that H and I just want different things?

I asked him if he and I would be exchanging gifts and he said "sure. nothing big, of course." Do I get him something thoughtful or just some generic thing? (FYI, I took "nothing big" to mean big ticket.)

Babbling. Long. Sorry. Guess I have a lot on my mind.

[MaxP]

Hey Trixi,

Sounds like things are really moving along (quite literally too). Your new place sounds great and will be somewhere you can really get stuck into. You have loads of friends and an excellent support work, which must feel really amazing and has to be a very positive comment on the kind of person you are and what people feel about you. It's a really hard thing to do, but you have all the foundations in place to make the transition.

I've just finished reading Rebulding, I found most of it to be good with some excellent chapters. I need to go back through it again to try to work at some kind of measured pace (I always read these cover to cover without doing most of the work!). My only gripe was with some of the analogies and terms used. The premise is excellent though.

My W also has the "nothing is forever" viewpoint which is something I can't understand, in truth it's one of the very few concerns that I had early on in our R. In my mind it's just another way of expressing commitmentphobia, a handy get out clause for those who like to think of themselves as liberal and free spirited - when it's convenient to do so. Of course those left behind often get labelled as having unrealistic expectations, almost of being inhibited and boring, rather than people who recognise that at times Rs require real effort to make them great. Out of interest is your H an only child?

With regard to the gift question, I don't really know. Something thoughtful but inexpensive perhaps. Something that he may need or reminds him of you.

All in all I hope you have a really great christmas, enjoy it for your sake and show him just what a good time you can have.

Take care,

Max

[NikB]

Sounds like you're doing pretty well overall Trixi. None of this is easy!!

H wants to celebrate Christmas before he leaves with DD and myself. I said I would do it, but there is a part of me that is saying "WTF? Are you crazy?!" How am I going to "celebrate" with the person who is ripping out my heart? My mom seems to think it sends a bad message to DD. That I am telling her it is "ok" to be treated badly. ...Am I being 'treated badly' or is it that H and I just want different things?

I say go with your gut on this one - if you don't want to celebrate it with him, then don't!! It doesn't matter if he's treating you badly.. it matters what you want and need for yourself.

(and incidentally yes, I think telling you he wants to date but still stringing you along is bad treatment... but the first part, going with your gut, is more important).

[Trixi]

Of course those left behind often get labelled as having unrealistic expectations, almost of being inhibited and boring, rather than people who recognise that at times Rs require real effort to make them great. Out of interest is your H an only child?

Interesting point about the inhibited and boring. I've been accused of that before.

H is the youngest of two. Growing up he was very spoiled. He has always been cute and charming and has definitely used that to his advantage. And when he didn't get his way, he would just throw a fit until he did.

For now, I will stick with the idea of doing the Christmas thing together. I will also give myself "permission" to change my mind.

I stopped by my old office and was talking with one of my friends there and we had a really good talk. She went thru a sort of "string along" relationship for 3 years. The guy would say very similar thing to what my H is saying. A couple months ago, she met someone off of yahoo personals. Long story short- they are living together and quite happy. She told me that she didn't believe she could do better than the crumbs she was getting, but meeting this new guy has opened her eyes. Anyway, it gave me hope.

Max, I am like you, I read entire books before doing the exercises--I have to admit I don't normally go back to do them. Are you really going to go back thru the book and do the exercises?

[MaxP]

Of course those left behind often get labelled as having unrealistic expectations, almost of being inhibited and boring, rather than people who recognise that at times Rs require real effort to make them great. Out of interest is your H an only child?

Interesting point about the inhibited and boring. I've been accused of that before.

H is the youngest of two. Growing up he was very spoiled. He has always been cute and charming and has definitely used that to his advantage. And when he didn't get his way, he would just throw a fit until he did.

Oh, ok, that theory doesn't fit then. I think that only children can be slightly more prone to thinking about themselves than people with siblings - or it can go the other way. Perhaps they tend to extremes.

I used to be cute and charming and then I became a teenager. I think that's where your H has gone wrong.

For now, I will stick with the idea of doing the Christmas thing together. I will also give myself "permission" to change my mind.

Absolutely Trixi. Do what you want for a change. Reserve the right to change your mind and be a total pain in the backside. I hope you have really, really great time.

I stopped by my old office and was talking with one of my friends there and we had a really good talk. She went thru a sort of "string along" relationship for 3 years. The guy would say very similar thing to what my H is saying. A couple months ago, she met someone off of yahoo personals. Long story short- they are living together and quite happy. She told me that she didn't believe she could do better than the crumbs she was getting, but meeting this new guy has opened her eyes. Anyway, it gave me hope.

I guess we have to remember that our S are only one person in a few billion options. They may have felt like they are all we need in the journey through life but when they treat us badly there's no shame in thinking about the future. It's awful to have to start again (I can't stand the thought of it), but I know you, I and almost everyone here can do it and be happier too, having learnt so much from each other. Lest we forget of course. I guess this is what your wise friend is saying.

Max, I am like you, I read entire books before doing the exercises--I have to admit I don't normally go back to do them. Are you really going to go back thru the book and do the exercises?

Errrm, maybe?

[Trixi]

As soon as the business part of this whole ordeal is over, I am SO not going to speak to my H. It is WAY too hard. I miss him WAY too much. I can stuff my feelings when I am not in contact, but as soon as I talk to him, it just opens up the wounds.

He just called to talk about what we should get DD for Christmas and to firm up the plans of our get together. He starts out asking how I am. How the F does he think I am?! I of course said I was fine. We talked more about the furniture I would be taking. He asked if I would be removing my salt and pepper shaker collection right away or if I'd be coming back for it. (?) So I said "are you trying to find out if I am going to be completely moved out right away?" and he said "Yeah, I guess so." and I said "Yes, I will be pretty much completely out." and he says ""Pretty much completely out", huh? ok. Cool." (not cool in an excited way; just cool in a casual way.)
He asks for some ideas on what I want for Christmas and gives me a couple of ideas for him. Tells me how he is on his way over to his parents for dinner. I didn't say too much; just let him babble.

Like talking about how to separate our lives is such a "normal" thing to do. Like talking about destroying 13 years together is just another day at the office.

So, now, here I am again crying and wondering WHY is this happening??? Why can't I stop it??

I need to get into my new house. I need to start my new life.

In happier news, I was talking to a friend today about being a full commission person and how scared I am, but that full charge bookkeepers make $1000/mo LESS than I did 15 years ago and she said "Oh! If you want to work where I work, I would hire you in a heartbeat." The upsides-a guaranteed salary plus ability to make a little in commission. The downside is that it's a travel job. I would have to get rid of my pets. And I would sometimes be getting home at 1am on Friday nights and then flying out again 6am monday morning, which would pretty much kill the weekend. (She used to have this job before her promotion; she was wiped out a LOT.)

As of this very second, I wouldn't do it. I really want to get settled into my new place. Then I'll see how I feel about it. I was just glad to hear that there could be other options out there where I would be able to make enough money to support myself.