WAW does not want to try

[ann25]

hi wawpioneer. It's awesome that she's back. For her, that's alot. It took her admitting (even if only to herself) that she wasn't right and maybe should have stayed.

be patient. I had an EA. my biggest struggle w/ my H now is that he wants so much from me physically and emotionally. he wants me back the way i was before all the problems. I can't get there yet. I am always thinking to myself "why can't he just be happy that I'm here and I want this and I'm trying?" follow her lead, listen to her and continue validating her feelings. She will have good days, where she knows this was the right idea and bad days, where she's wondering why she even cares. be patient...

I said this when you first came and said she was back and i stand by it. NO EXPECTATIONS. even if you can't see it, she thinks (in someway) she's trying.

She says that your only focus is R and church. Go out with some friends and catch a movie. go to the gym or park. take the kids out just go hang out somewhere.

as for inviting her somewhere, i say it's good. I wouldn't go for anything romantic or R focused, but just something fun. my H and i go to movies, go walking around the mall, going to the gym, going to dave and busters (grown up arcade), mini golf or bowling. Just something fun where its not so much about finding something to talk about, but just remembering what it feels like to be out with one another and enjoying yourselves. Let her get used to being with you again.

[micoms]

waspioneer,

What about seeing if she's willing to have a "date night" every couple of weeks. Take her out to dinner, go dancing etc. Just a night the two of you get out of the house together alone and enjoy a good time. Don't know if you have family nearby, would they be willing to watch the kids overnight?

Mike

[wawpioneer]

I am really trying to hang in there. It is difficult to to be positive when she is so unhappy. One thing that I might have left out in a couple of earlier posts is that I think she still loves OM and she misses him. The reason I say this is because Sunday night she said that what she had with OM had felt "natural" and that it was the only thing in her life that she had that made her feel happy and she does not have that any more. I think she is still grieving over OM at times. She says that she is not in contact with him but I don't know if I can believe that. His name is still programmed on her cell phone and there is a picture of a man on her computer by himself that I do not recognize. I know that I should not have been snooping but it is hard not to when she is so secretive. I do not have any access to her cell phone bills, myspace account, or e-mail accounts at all. She has not given me the passwords but I have not asked for them for fear that it would be perceived as controlling. All of this is hard to overcome. I think that I am getting compared to that EA and the OM and that really is not fair to us. Unfortunately, that is the way that it is right now. She told her sister that she has been back 4 days and still nothing has changed. I don't know what she expects nor what she thought would happen when she moved back in. Why did she move back in? She told her sister that she moved back so that down the road if she did leave she would not have to wonder how it would have turned out had she given it another chance. That is not the impression that I got when asked to move back in. It feels as if she is here just to ease her guilt or to try to justify in her mind that she did give it another chance and it still did not work so therefore, it was not meant to be. I am going to C today and am going to discuss all of this with him. I am just so lost and do not know what to do here. She is not willing to talk with me about anything but I have not asked so that I would not pressure her.

I know that I will have to have patience. I am just venting some here I guess. I wonder though if it was too early for her to move back in. I think she moved back in for the wrong reasons. Hopefully I will see something soon. I will look for smaller changes. Last night we rubbed each others backs but I am not sure that means anything at all.

[wawpioneer]

I appreciate the suggestions ann25. I guess that in her own way that she is trying but trying what? She is definitely not putting anything into action. What I mean by that is that I asked her what ,if any needs, that she has that I can fufill and she said that she does not know what her needs are. I asked her for help to tell me that if I am doing something right then let me know. She said that she does not know what I want her to do. I feel like I am in a dark room with no light right now trying to feel my way around with no guidance. What would your plan be right now Ann25 if you were in my shoes? Thank you for your unique perspective.

[I_Wanna_Make_It_Work]

This is a pickle - but, again, not a surprise. I think the more threads you read, the more you see how similar everyones sitch is.

STOP TRYING SO HARD TO PLEASE HER. That's not what she needs or wants. What she needs is for you to man-up to being the husband you should be without her having to tell you what she needs. We're supposed to figure it out without them - because they can't figure it out themselves.

What went wrong in the M? That's a place to start. Think it out, and do the opposite. I'll give you some of my personal experiences.

My W is very social. Loves being around people. Not me. I wasn't a recluse, but enjoyed my quiet time more than social gatherings. So we would often leave these events early for me. Now, I seek out these events. My W may not be with me at them, but she knows when I go and where I go. And she is thrilled. She tells me.

I was never a "leader" in the family (spiritual or otherwise). Convos went something like this: "What do you want to do for dinner?" "Oh, I don't care. What do you want?" "Oh, I don't care, either. You decide." That's not what she needed. She wanted me to be a man, pick a direction and get her consent.

DB'ing is very different for me - because one of my issues in the M is I didn't interact with her as I should have. She would talk, I would listen. When she was done - we'd move on. I didn't share my emotions. That's not what she wanted. Again, luckily, she did eventually tell me. But only after I recognized it and did something about it. So DB'ing suggests we be a bit mysterious - yet that was exactly how I was inside the M. By constinuing that, it was more of the same for her. The 180 was to share even more with her. Even though DB'ing says be aloof.

To your sitch - I meant to post this a few days ago, but I didn't. You mentioned that she says you are obsessed with the church and saving the M. Stop. You also mentioned you're not sure how to engage her. Stop.

Do what you think is going to make you a better man (lead) and invite her along for the ride. She can not be an obsession. To wit; "W, I'm going bowling Friday. Want to come?" "I need windshield wiper fluid so I'm going to WalMart - need anything?" You just go on living, acknowledge your failings and weaknesses, set a course to correct them, and then live. (It's the part of GAL that mostly goes undiscussed).

Your attitude has to be this: I acknowledge my failings. I asked God for forgiveness and He forgave me. I asked my W for foregiveness and she did, too. Now, I know what a good husband is; how he behaves; what he looks like and I will live that way. Sooner or later, my W will join me on the new path. It may not be today or tomorrow - but after this season of change, she will no longer see me for my previous failings and will see me as the man she always loved. The man I should always have been. The man I am becoming.

DB'ing, and specifically GAL, is so much more than just healing your marriage. You have to be whole again before there's any chance of your marriage being saved.

Here is the most important thought that came to me over the year of my S from my W. It took an awful lot for my W to leave the M and me. Things must have been unbearable for her. I now see many of the issues she had been trying to discuss with me for years. So, if I were to continue living the same way, then my chances of reconciling the M are less then zero. Why would she come back to what took her years of suffering to leave? She wouldn't. The change and effort had to come from me.

[john210]

It's gonna work,
That is an awesome pep talk....I will make sure to apply some of those suggestions to my sitch.
Thanks!

[ann25]

after your last post I'm not sure. I know that you can't believe most of what you hear, and probably less of what you hear from someone she talked to, but that sounds like something a WAW would say to justify.

so that down the road if she did leave she would not have to wonder how it would have turned out had she given it another chance

I'm torn. It sounds to me like she came back to find reasons she shouldn't be back. if that makes any sense. She came back, if it works out and suddenly you make her feel all warm and fuzzy, then ok, but if not then she was justified in her leaving and she did her best. this is just one person's opinion, but if she's comparing you to OM, she's not ready to be there. Then again, i've told my H the same things. I don't know what he wants from me. I don't know what i need from him. if she brings up R talk, you might ask her to think of one thing you used to do that made her happy. Just to think of one little thing. if she can, try that. I thought I knew what i needed from my H, but i didn't. It's amazing what a simple thing can do.

1. you will never be OM and you will never make her feel the exact same way. funny thing about As. i think EA especially, its all about saying exactly what the other person wants to hear. He loves her, she's beautiful, he adores her... blah blah blah. If he really did, he wouldn't be there at all. he wouldn't be trying to break down her M. because he's not M to her, it's all "flowers and rainbows." that probably sounds silly, but it is. She chooses not to see any bad in him and only bad in you and then compares the 2 of you. I remember thinking in my head, if my H would only say those things to me. If he'd only listen like that. it's BS. I snapped out of it fairly quickly, so i see that now, but it doesn't seem like she does yet.

2. GAL. Have fun or at least act ASIF.

3. Don't count on her to do anything. You just keep DBing.

4. She said nothings changed. Have you? have you done 180s? if yes, she is choosing not to see it. Just keep working at it.

5. validate her feelings. "it must be hard for you feeling that nothing has changed" something like that. If she seems open to hanging out with you and wanting to actually work on the M, then go for it, but definately no pressure. IMO she's looking for a reason to run, but doesn't necessarily want to find it. She's torn about it and probably from one day to the next, she changes her mind.

Good luck. Hang in there. I hope she comes around and realizes that your M is worth actually fighting for.

ann

[wawpioneer]

I_W and Ann25,

Wow! I appreciate the insight. You have been very helpful in confirming some things that I was thinking on today. I was thinking about these things after C today. I have not been patient enough and have not given her the chance to heal and time necessary to decide what it is she wants. I know that she wants to see if it can work even if she is going about it in an unusual or irrational way. It may be the only way that she knows how to try. During our M I was a non-existent partner. I always had to be right and I was never around. I was always working and did not spend any time talking with her or spending time with just her. I did not validate any of her feelings because they were different than mine. She felt as though I did not care about her until she left (her words). I am assuming that my 180 should be to do the opposite of those things and hope eventually she will come around. One thing that I see that you guys have suggested is to do more of GAL. I may need to go bowling more. I may need to go see movies by myself if necessary if she declines to go with me. I have been going to the gym a few days a week but maybe I need more activities. I have always wanted to learn how to play guitar but I feel that if I pick up too many activities then she may feel as if I am not available to her just like it was in our M. I have been spending time watching TV with her and rubbing her back the last two nights. I just offered and she said OK. I did not ask her if I could she just came over to my couch after I offered. We have been watching shows that she enjoys. We actually had much better conversation after work today than usual even though she is sick tonight. I noticed it and hope it continues. We will see.

I had two thoughts after C today. I thought about making a list of my needs that I have and also develop a list of activities that we could posibly do together and present those to her. She could then choose to fulfill those are some point or not. At least she would then know what or how to approach fulfilling my needs. If she did not try to fulfill them then she truly would not have tried "everything". It may even encourage her to develop somewhat of a list or maybe a verbal list of some things that I could do to help her feel loved. I don't want to "box" our relationship in or schedule it down too much otherwise she will think I am trying to "fix it". I was going to present it in a manner that would let her know that I had been thinking about some needs that I have had over the years and that I would like for her to know about. What do you guys think?

I also need to have a conversation about the OM at some point. I feel as though she had not disclosed all the details of it and thus I feel as though I cannot move past it until she aswers some questions. If she is willing to answer some questions then it might help build trust between us in a way. I know you guys think this is a bad idea but I just have a few unanswered questions and if I get the answers (no matter good or bad) then I could work on complete forgiveness and put it past me. I don't want to know detailed phone or e-mail conversations regarding the EA but I do need to know if there was any physical contact when he was in her hotel room in April. It makes a difference to me. I am working on forgiveness but I am only human. I would then commit to her that I would try real hard not to bring it up ever again so that she would not feel as though she woould be paying for it forever. This is selfish but not knowing is killing my desire to move forward. I thought that I would approach this after the new year. I am not sure that I should even do here but I do need to know if she is done with the EA. Is that not fair? Any thoughts?

[S.T. _I Made It!]

no no no.... don't give her that list. That is WAY WAY too much pressure. knowing what you know now. I would even say not to invite her out very often. try it once and see what happens, just a nonchalant hey, I'm going to watch "blah blah' at the movies, you wanna come? "no not tonight" "okay, maybe next time, have a good night!" all in an upbeat mood. at least go out for yourself a few times inbetween each time you ask if she would come. It sounds like she thinks you don't have much of a life, from her comment about church and R talk. You want her to think your having fun with your life, enjoying yourself, loving your life. otherwise, why in the world would she want to join you if your life is dull and unhappy or full of worry?


and no, you can't talk about the OM. does it even matter? look we all screw up, and even if she ML with OM (which I haven't read your sitch enough to know) it doesn't matter. we all are sinners and God has given us the power to forgive. So whether we know everything right now, it really isn't going to change the past. Forgive her now for anything she could have already done. I forgave my husband the second I figured it out. It may have taken much longer to forget, but if we cannot forgive others, how can God forgive us? When you guys really DO start working on the M together, that is the time to let your concerns about OM and other things out in the open. Now is definitely NOT the right time.

You just need to focus on the things you need to change to make you a better man/husband/etc. Don't worry that she's not telling you anything. I was right there with you. But see you've already figured out so much, and you know her top 5LL right, so you have a LOT to work with. stop trying to jump to the end of the tunnel... you've got to trudge thru it first.

[I_Wanna_Make_It_Work]

ST took the words right out of my mouth ... read and reread it. Also, catch up on her sitch. She busted her D. But let me repeat them anyway and add a thing or two.

1. GAL and invite W almost as a courtesy to your events. You don't expect she will say yes, but if she does... great.

2. For me it was piano, not guitar. I have a year under my belt. Do it!!!

3. No list of your needs. That's a long way away. This is about W's needs right now. You will have to take a back seat. Self-sacrifice. Your needs will be met eventually. Just not now. Find your comfort and validation from God. Do not put pressure on your W.

4. You also don't present her with a list of possible activities. You simply tentatively schedule them and then get her consent. Be a leader.

5. No OM talk. He is insignificant. Do not give him or their pseudo-relationship any credibility. In a year, W and I have had 2 conversations about OM. And that was 2 too many. Forget it. Push it down, man. No good can come from it right now. When she recommits to the M, then it may be time. Not now.