Time For Me to Fly

[saffie]

Is there any love left there at all for your W Mark?

Love and hate are very closely linked IMHO. Or are you indifferent and numb to her most of the time?

You have to do what you believe is right for you and your children. From what you say I think your W may have some big problems with valuing herself. She does not sound as though deep down she is very confident and she needs external validation of her worth. She probably got it from you until the children were born and then from the children when they were small.

Now the children are older and not so dependent on her and you invest your love in your children. I think she is crying out for help but not receptive to it and if you have had enough I don't know what else you can do.

I am so sorry Mark.

Saffie

[mcojh]

Mark-

To your question when is enough enough? I struggled with that myself. I always wondered at what point to I go from "hero" for standing up for my marriage to doormat.

That day came 3 weeks ago for me. I had such clarity that enough was enough. She served me the D papers and although I could continue to stand up for my marriage, I suddenly found it incredibly easy to sit down. You have been at this 16 months. I have been at it 11 now. My wife has been out of the house for 8 months, so that makes it a little differant.

IMHO, continue to DB and PMA, for Mark. When the time is right you will know it.

[Rob1231]

Mark, I'm very sorry that you've reached this point - but that is your decision and I would never question your right to decide when you are done. I do admire you for everything you have done, for yourself and for your family. You are a good man.

So, some more tough questions for you...

Why don't you file for the D? In the past, the reason was because you did not agree with it and - if it was going to happen, she was going to have to be the one to do it. If you now believe that a D is the best course forward for yourself and your kids, what's holding you back?

If a D is farther than you are prepared to go right now, what about a separation? As in, tell her to get her crazy a$$ out of the house?

Finally, how are your kids doing? Have you talked to them about it, since they overheard you and W talking?

Stay strong, and remember that we are here for you.

[Ohio_Mark]

Why don't you file for the D? In the past, the reason was because you did not agree with it and - if it was going to happen, she was going to have to be the one to do it. If you now believe that a D is the best course forward for yourself and your kids, what's holding you back?

The thought has crossed my mind. However, I don't believe that a divorce is the best course for me and my kids. I think reconciliation with intense MC and IC is what's best. And as long as I believe that, I will not file.

If a D is farther than you are prepared to go right now, what about a separation? As in, tell her to get her crazy a$$ out of the house?

We are already "separated." Well, she lives here, but she sleeps in a different bedroom. I believe that she is doing this under the advice of her attorney. I think it fulfills the period of separation required for a divorce, and she can tell the judge that she did not abandon the kids. It's nothing more than legal maneuvering on her part. But she will not move.

Finally, how are your kids doing? Have you talked to them about it, since they overheard you and W talking?

We have not talked to the kids. I am not really sure how much the kids heard, though. The bedroom door was closed, but I don't know where the kids were when we were talking. I have no doubt that if they have questions, they will ask.

Thanks for the support. I am going to continue DBing. I gave her PMA this morning. I am not going surly/passive-aggressive. So DBing will continue. But I will not tolerate blatant disrespect. No more of that.

[tryingtoholdon]

MArk,

Okay I also have a 2x4 along with Rob. You were very much contributing to this conversation. In fact you said you started the arguement because you were pissed about something.(the dog) But then you turn around and blame the whole thing on her. If she tried to tell you any beefs she had with you then you threw in her face the affair she is having. Maybe she was trying to explain before the affair the reasons she was unhappy. Like you could do something but be damned if she could do something and not make a decision with you. She says she feels you don;t have empathy. She is saying this I take it as prebomb and that is the way she felt. All I am saying is she must have felt these things for a reason. Sometime's you do seem to be confrontational and angry. With good reason right now I will add. But think about before. Was she hurting? Was the marriage bad? Or were you Mr. Wonderful who treated her the best a man could treat a woman?

You were also responsible for the fact that the kid's heard this. Because it takes two to have a fight. You could have said let's go outside. Or let older son babysit and hash it out elsewhere. So could she have. But see that's where you were both at fault. You were loaded with anger because you were mad about a dog. She was feeling self righteous that she should be able to get something if she wants. But either one of you could have made the decision to stop this fight. You brought up the boyfriend maybe because you want them to know. You feel it's coming to an end and you want them to know. So she is made to be the bad guy. I think you guys are in a serious power struggle right now. This is going to damage the kid's bad. I can tell you won't be easy to deal with unless you can check some anger at the door. Just like the comment you made to Jar that if it was you you wouldn't have even called your wife to let her know daughter was in emergency room. That is terrible and a total power struggle going on in your mind. It was like you said,she chose this so deal with the losses that may come your way. If your daughter is lying in an emergency room and it's during my time oh well you chose this life. That's not fair and believe me she would have ammo in court.

I am sorry for the 2X4. I just see you going down a bad path right now. Your full of anger and hostility and it's showing big time. You are also in a power struggle. Believe me you are justified to be angry she cheated on you. But if you are feeling this much anger why not just walk away right now. It will be much better for the children to not have to witness these fights. It scares children.

[Ohio_Mark]

I would stay away from her as much as possible, and let HER file.
If you can stand waiting that is. I would stick up for yourself and not let her get away with anything at this point.

On the other hand if you really feel that there is hope, by all means.. continue with your db/pma.. but if you don't, I wouldn't waste my time.

Only thing I would say is try to protect your kids as much as possible from her rantings.

I guess what really set me off yesterday is her using the kids like she did. She was using the kids to get what she wants.

And yes, I can wait. And I will wait. I am not going to file. The divorce will be initiated by her. As I have said, she doesn't have the guts to file. She won't do it.

Thanks for the support, TAL.

[Ohio_Mark]

trying-
First off, she brought up the boyfriend, not me. I'm not going to drag that stuff into an argument. It's not constructive. But she brought it up, not me.

Confrontational and angry? Up until yesterday, no. I let it all roll off. Unfortunately, it didn't go away. It got bottled up. And the bottle burst yesterday. Big time.

Perhaps, as a woman, you don't fully comprehend how important it is for a man to be respected. It's critical for a man's self-esteem that he be respected, especially by his family. Right now, she has no respect for me, and the kids are sensing it. The boys have been getting more lippy with me over the past several months. Although I am not casting blame, it is difficult for me to not draw conclusions here.

I have been "checking it at the door" for months now, with absolutely nothing to show for it. I am getting tired of being a doormat. The bottom line is that I would be a whole lot less angry if she had just a little respect for me.

[LL44]

Good morning...you Internet predator you.......

I agree with both sides of this thread. I think like all of us, we go between "marriage is best" to "I can't do this anymore, how long are we expected to do this?". I know when you say you are done, you are doing this to protect yourself, your heart, and your emotions. We have to build some sort of wall between us and the hurt. Detaching and moving on, instead of staying and being hurt daily. This is hard to do without (at least at some point, on and off) losing our focus, the intact healthy marriage. Unfortunately our spouses give us no indication that this will happen, in fact, have acted just the opposite.

I see your purpose of not filing, but have you said to her, as a LRT, "Let's make appts for an attorney" or "Make a list of what you want from this divorce". You don't have to file, but you can show her that you will move forward, won't stand still being disrespected on a daily basis.

I never realized how important respect is either, until now. In the past I disrespected H without even realizing it. Like saffie said in my thread, I did things for him I thought was supporting (clean clothes, dinner made...), but he wanted something different and I refused to listen. Now its my turn to receive the disrespect, and it hurts.

You think she has seen an attorney, right? Does she know if you have or haven't?

Mark, I am thinking of you.

[tryingtoholdon]

Mark no I don't know what it's like to be a man. That also could have been the reason my own husband was unhappy. As he has made that same comment before. Something I also did a 180 on. Our marriage was bad so I got used to depending on myself and doing for my kid's. I kind of threw him out of the equation. So I myself am far from perfect.

I guess I was just worried about the kid's being in the anger. Sometime's it can be a lot better to just seperate then to let them see things like this. Maybe you could set up a dinner date with her and really sit down and talk about things. Somewhere where she will have to be civil kind of of. Just talk from the heart on where your at. How you feel. Ask her how she feels. Tell her right from the bat I don't want this to be screaming. Just us talking to get a better understanding of where we stand. Without anger.

[saffie]

Mark,

Your oldest two kids are at an age when they are going to start getting lippy and questioning things. It's hard enough to deal with them when they hit these ages if your M is good and both S's are working together in harmony. Don't blame everything on the M problems.

Anger is very destructive and keeps walls up. I know it's hard to let go of but hopefully now you have let rip a bit you can try and move forwards again.

Saffie