not a peep

[Trixi]

I agree with one exception-not going to do the lawyer thing.
He and I have already done some broad brush strokes regarding the finances. I *could* get more, I don't want more. As he said (in the conversation today) if we start dragging lawyers into it, then hate and bitterness will start being brought into the relationship, and he doesn't want that. Nor do I. I am capable to making my own way in this world- I don't need to be greedy and I most certainly do NOT need a bunch more negative crap in my life.

I totally 'get' the idea of playing hardball, but if he "came back" only because his wallet was getting hit, would I want him? no. I wanted him to come back because he loved me. If I get half, I'm cool. No need to spend money on an attorney.

I told him about the conversation I had with gal who got 2/3rd of the equity and 2 years spousal support. I said that I thought the law would side with me on that, BUT I really don't want more than half of the equity. We agreed to a minimum of 1 year support max 2 years, with a review of my financial sitch at the end of one year. Reason being, if I am doing well with my business and can support myself, then he shouldn't have to pay. And, I see his point. I would probably have volunteered it anyway. If I am doing well without his help, then I would rather cut that tie with him.
From his side, he understands that I might need the help and I should be able to have enough money to do "fun things" that I want to do.

I am getting the mattress (just purchased in August), bedroom set (same purchase), TV and entertainment center that he has in his apartment. So, first part of Jan we'll be doing the furniture exchange. We can hash out the financials, close out the joint accounts and once all of that is done, I guess I won't be talking to him anymore. Sadly, I don't think it will matter to him.

Oh crud. We will probably have to talk in Feb to do taxes. (I have two businesses. Discussed today- we are going to file jointly since it's in my best interest.)

But, yes, ultimately, I will be going pitch black. In WA, it is only a 90 day waiting period, so if we agree to everything by mid Jan and he gets it filed (it's only $200 -Whoopeeeeeee! <rolls eyes>) then we could be legally divorced as early as April 15th. Isn't that fan'frigging'tastic??????

Near the end of the convo (since we were having a such a friendly time) I said "You know, I do NOT want a divorce, and if you think we will be sitting around being chummy like this afterwards, you are sorely mistaken." He just said "ok."

I think he is hoping we'll be one of "those" couples. You know, "those" x-couples who go out to dinner and catch up, "those" x-couples who are best friends, go on double dates, make friends with the X's new signifigant other. Give relationship advice... Yeah, I think that is what he wants. Wouldn't that just be FAB' for him?? HA!

[Trixi]

maybe it's time to stop doing what isnt working, and do a 180.
What's a 180 from what you've been doing?

Missed this post.

A 180 would be to be agreeable to getting a divorce and stop trying to convince him otherwise. A 180 would be for ME to move out, for ME to support myself and GAL and move on.
A 180 would be for me to really accept our marriage is D-E-A-D.

Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :'(

[Dom R]

I agree with one exception-not going to do the lawyer thing.
He and I have already done some broad brush strokes regarding the finances. I *could* get more, I don't want more. As he said (in the conversation today) if we start dragging lawyers into it, then hate and bitterness will start being brought into the relationship, and he doesn't want that. Nor do I.

If you're not going to go through lawyers, then you probably need to get someone to volunteer to be your "3rd party" to avoid talking to him.

The main use of a laywer, is that you automatically have that "neutral 3rd party" so that you dont have to talk to him any more.

I totally 'get' the idea of playing hardball, but if he "came back" only because his wallet was getting hit, would I want him? no. I wanted him to come back because he loved me.

then you're a fool. lol.

A huge percentage of marriages get saved and turned into something positive, because the leaving person initially decided to "stick around for the children". or "stick it out for the money". or....
The point is, for whatever reason, they change their mind, for something other than "love", and dont go for divorce after all.

Then after a while longer, ideally, their own selfishness pokes up, and they wonder, "Hmm... well.. if I'm going to be 'stuck here'... how can I make it more pleasant?"

and that's when the real work begins, to bring back positive feelings again.

It doesnt matter so much why he comes back. The important question, is whether he comes back to stay.


Seems like he's in the middle of MLC, now. A full-blown one, not "MLC-lite" any more.
He's not going to suddenly turn around and tell you he loves you, and that everything has changed for him.

I think he is hoping we'll be one of "those" couples. You know, "those" x-couples who go out to dinner and catch up, "those" x-couples who are best friends, go on double dates, make friends with the X's new signifigant other. Give relationship advice... Yeah, I think that is what he wants. Wouldn't that just be FAB' for him?? HA!

you are showing him by your actions, that is exactly what will happen.
actions speak louder than words. change your actions.

A 180 would be for me to really accept our marriage is D-E-A-D.

Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :'(

no, that's not what 180s are about.
:P

(a similar, yet different 180, would be, "recognizing that if he is determined to get a divorce, you cant stop him" (you can only make it as comfortable as possible for yourself as you can) )

[Trixi]

A huge percentage of marriages get saved, because the leaving personone decided to "stick around for the children". or "stick t out for the money". or....

But the point is, for whatever reason, they change their mind, and dont go for divorce after all.
Then after a while longer, ideally, their own selfishness pokes up, and they wonder, "Hmm... well.. if I'm going to be 'stuck here'... how can I make it more pleasant?"

And that has already happened for him. In 2001, we had a BAD summer. He was sad, lonely, mad back then and ready to divorce, but decided to do the "right thing" and stick it out for the kids. The past 6 years haven't been horrible- in fact, we had a lot of good times especially the past couple years when my thyroid was fixed, but he already had decided there was an exit, so, in my opinion, he never fully committed to putting effort into the marriage.

At this juncture, I don't think there is anything I can do to change his mind. I have been trying since late 2005 to stop this train. I don't want to convince, cajole, manipulate, guilt,scare financially or anything else to get him to come back. As sad as I am at what looks to be the ultimate outcome, I am tired. I think I deserve to be loved, REALLY loved and cherished and he can't do that right now or maybe ever.

[Dom R]

hrm. i forgot about the earlier Divorce threat from him. you should probably put it in your signature :-/

I'm sorry.
That's major long-term WAH-hood.

I think I deserve to be loved, REALLY loved and cherished

i agree. we all do

he can't do that right now or maybe ever.

who knows... maybe in 6 months of being on his own. maybe a year. maybe 2 years. maybe never, as you say.

I hope that you take care of yourself, either way, and start looking out more, for you.

[MaxP]

A huge percentage of marriages get saved, because the leaving personone decided to "stick around for the children". or "stick t out for the money". or...."

I think that this is one thing that makes me mad, the refusal of my W to work through a downturn and give it a chance rather than immediately heading for the exit.

And that has already happened for him. In 2001, we had a BAD summer. He was sad, lonely, mad back then and ready to divorce, but decided to do the "right thing" and stick it out for the kids. The past 6 years haven't been horrible- in fact, we had a lot of good times especially the past couple years when my thyroid was fixed, but he already had decided there was an exit, so, in my opinion, he never fully committed to putting effort into the marriage.

I think that once people feel that there is an exit and that it is acceptable to use it you lose all power. They start to move along the emotional curve before they leave making the pain less intense for themselves. I can't help but feel that once you behave in this way you form a habit for life though - and miss out on some really good stuff that comes after fighting for a better future.

At this juncture, I don't think there is anything I can do to change his mind. I have been trying since late 2005 to stop this train. I don't want to convince, cajole, manipulate, guilt,scare financially or anything else to get him to come back. As sad as I am at what looks to be the ultimate outcome, I am tired. I think I deserve to be loved, REALLY loved and cherished and he can't do that right now or maybe ever.

Hey Trixi, you know I feel for you here. This is how I feel alot of the time, at least until someone pulls the next bit of the sticking plaster away.

Max

[Trixi]

ARGH!!! I was telling my DD about getting the rental house, etc and she said "if you need a roommate....." Which got me to thinking.

Originally, one of the motivators to rent was to not get tied into a house if H and I were going to stay married. Now that it is clear we are NOT going to stay married, that changes things.

There is one house that I sorta liked that was for sale; it has enough space that she could actually have a good amount of separate space. The rental house does not have that. At the rental her room would be smaller than any bedroom she has ever been in.

The biggest con to this house is that it is in the city that my H would probably shop and dine in. I really don't want to have to accidentally see him with someone. Of course, theoretically I shouldn't always have the concern.

Okay- here's the list:
PROS to buying:
Home ownership/tax benefits
Can help DD and DD can help me by paying rent
Purchase price $40K LESS than purchase price of rental
Savings on rental only temporary until next year
Fenced backyard
I can have a dog if I want
House only a couple years old (rental is old, but charming)
BIG master
BIG master bath

Rental house is "cuter" and affords more privacy (until he gets done subdividing.) If my DD pays me $400/mo in rent, the payment will be $300/month more than the rental. But that is an amount that I think I *would* get back in the way of tax benefits and potential appreciation.

If I had to buy the rental house now, the mortgage would be $275 MORE per month than the other house. If I factor in getting $400/mo rent from DD, that would make the rental house cost $675 MORE per month.

Rental house has an awesome gazebo. Lots of old world charm...but it does need some updating in the bathrooms and the master is VERY small; as is the master bath. Purchase house is a split level (not as desirable for resale) but it is not a typical split, so it might be okay.

I feel "better" in the rental house, but I think part of that is that it has trees and all the walls are painted nice warm colors. It feels homey. The purchase house still has white walls and doesn't feel as homey. Of course, I can paint and I can make it feel much warmer.

What a weekend. I have to decide by tomorrow what I am going to do because the landlord wants a non-refundable deposit to hold the house til the end of the month.

I am totally torn down the middle on this one.

[SallyM]

honestly, trixie, the pro list on buying is longer...to me it seems like a no brainer. a few questions in my mind...do you trust your daughter about the rent? will she skip it sometimes, or cut it down other times, because you are mom?

new means not likely to have so many repairs. don't forget that factor.

you can paint...the white walls can be fixed easily. small bathrooms/bedrooms in the rental are a much pricier fix.

[Trixi]

Thanks for chiming in Sally.
I just got back from taking my girlfriend to the house. (She saw the rental on Friday.)

She agrees that the rental has a lot more charm to it. Likes how private it feels. However, since we don't know *how* things will look once he gets done putting in the road to the back parcels, etc, it is sort of "risky" in that I might want to move once everything has been cleared.

She also questioned whether I even WANT to have a 20 year old living with me with a a 20 year old lifestyle. (I honestly have my concerns with that too.) And DD was balking a little bit when I talked with her, saying that she wanted to know what the rules were going to be before she would commit to anything. But that yes, she was interested in considering it. I think I need to make this decision without planning on having her move in.

I just remembered that the rental house will actually be more like $47k+ more; I want my closing costs paid for by the seller, and so I know he would want to add it to the price.

The rental house 'sings' to me. I *think* the purchase house *could* sing if it had different lighting, color on the walls, different doors and millwork. [Listen up sellers- STAGE YOUR HOMES!!]

Okay, speaking to my lender; she thinks I should just purchase, especially since it is SOOO much less expensive than the rental and renting is just throwing money out the window.

I just wish the split had the 'charm' of the rental. Oh well. *sigh*

[Dom R]

maybe you should compare them on the basis of presuming that you will NOT be living with your daughter.

that way, if she cant stand it after two months... you'll be ok either way.