not a peep

[Dom R]

I am too tired to ask for retrouvaille. I already mentioned it (again) in our IM "conversation." He would have said something about it if he were the least bit interested.

It is said that one definition of insanity, is repeating the same behaviour, and expecting a different result.

You havent changed anything. You're doing the same things. So you're getting the same result.

[Trixi]

Oh to clarify---the "conversation" that I posted above was done via Instant Messenger. That was a cleaned up cut and paste that I posted.

SirPrize-I understand what you are saying. If I did go out on a date, it wouldn't be to get even with him. It would be a nice distraction and give me a boost. Having said that, I am not actively looking to go on a date, haven't posted any profiles anywhere, and recognize that I am wounded right now.

Regarding empathizing and saying that he is really struggling- I don't think that would be validating because he has now made it crystal clear he DOES know what he wants and he wants OUT.

If he had said the "Nothing is Forever" thing once, I would think he was just spouting off. But, he first wrote it in the IM 'conversation' and then said it again when he actually called me. It was obviously some sort of "theme" for him yesterday.

Dom, I don't get what you mean regarding Retro. In the last couple of months, I told him about it being recommended by people here,(I didn't specify DB, just said "a board I read), in the context of judges and attorneys sending people there and it helping people communicate-even if only to help negotiate a divorce. I have told him about it in the context of saving marriages. And yesterday, in the IM, I mentioned not giving it a try. (It has also come up when we are fighting regarding whether or not we've tried all that we can.)

You havent changed anything. You're doing the same things. So you're getting the same result.

??

[Dom R]

Regarding empathizing and saying that he is really struggling- I don't think that would be validating because he has now made it crystal clear he DOES know what he wants and he wants OUT.

i agree.

If he had said the "Nothing is Forever" thing once, I would think he was just spouting off. But, he first wrote it in the IM 'conversation' and then said it again when he actually called me. It was obviously some sort of "theme" for him yesterday.

i think it's the cake-eater in him.
he's using it to both denigrate the concept of marriage... yet at the same time, imply that divorce doesnt have to be forever either, so keep being nice to him [dangle dangle dangle nice carrot?]

Dom, I don't get what you mean regarding Retro. In the last couple of months, I told him about it being recommended by people here,(I didn't specify DB, just said "a board I read), in the context of judges and attorneys sending people there and it helping people communicate-even if only to help negotiate a divorce.

If you wish him to try retrouville... then sometimes, the context is critical.
A lot of people have gotten their spouses to go, but ONLY in the context of, "Ok, i pretty much give up; this is the last thing I want to do, before just going through with a divorce".

That being said... I'm guessing that retrouville is most effective for people who are divorcing, "because their spouse is....".
I've never been, but I'm guessing that retrouville shows couples how to re-view their spouse as "my friend who cares about me", instead of "the enemy". And teaches the couple how to keep it that way.

Trouble is... that's not the problem with your H.
you're not "the enemy". his problem isnt with YOU. You treat him well. you try to listen to his needs, and take care of him.
He knows this, does he not?
It's not about you. It's about him. It's ALLL about him, and how your marriage is standing in the way of him playing the field.



PS: oh, i guess I should explain a little more, what i meant about "the same behaviour".
If you say "i think us going to retrouville is a good idea", and he says no.... and then another time, you say, "i think us going to RT is a really good idea"... and he says no ....
If all you keep doing, is bringing up the idea of going to retrouville... he's going to keep saying no, i reckon.
Nothing has changed on your side, and the only thing that's changed on HIS side, is that he's gotten worse. so even less likely to say anything but "no", unless you change something.

aka, ye olde "stop doing what doesnt work". At the very least, try a different way of doing it.

[Trixi]

Trouble is... that's not the problem with your H.
you're not "the enemy". his problem isnt with YOU. You treat him well. you try to listen to his needs, and take care of him.
He knows this, does he not?
It's not about you. It's about him. It's ALLL about him, and how your marriage is standing in the way of him playing the field.

And THAT's the truth!

i think it's the cake-eater in him.
he's using it to both denigrate the concept of marriage... yet at the same time, imply that divorce doesnt have to be forever either, so keep being nice to him [dangle dangle dangle nice carrot?]

The funny thing is that I think he means it. I mean, I am sure part of it is the cake-eater in him. But his whole airy-fairy approach yesterday was very, um, oh what am I trying to say..um, very "enlightened" or some such thing. (There is some word that might capture what I am trying to say better, but I can' think of it.)

So, you think that retro would be a waste of time?

[Dom R]

So, you think that retro would be a waste of time?

well, they say that it isnt particularly good for people who are actively involved in an affair.
your husband is kinda halfway there. you might say he's actively pursuing an affair that doesnt exist yet.
(my instinct is that it probably depends on WHY the person is involved in the affair.)

I dunno. it might help. I think i'm just saying, that if you do go, and it doesnt work for the two of you, it would not be a huge surprise.

PS:

(There is some word that might capture what I am trying to say better, but I can' think of it.)

how about "hippie" ?
"new age"?

free love, man.. it's groooovyyyy...

[Trixi]

how about "hippie" ?
"new age"?

free love, man.. it's groooovyyyy...

LOL!

I realized this morning, I don't want my current H back. He is right-- he has things he wants to do in his life that I cannot accept. Aside from the dating thing, he has been drinking a LOT and more often, doing drugs. That isn't what I want for my life or my life partner. It's not like I am some prudish, victorian teetotaller-but he is quite beyond my "comfort zone."

He thinks he is just "having fun" and it helps him relax and write better music. I see it as escapism. I don't know him when he gets really drunk or whatever--but he seems to think this is a good way to be. Seems very teenager'ish to me.

I still love him and wish things could be different, but he really seems hell-bent on going off in a different direction. Am I supposed to 'stand' in a situation like this?

[Dom R]

"supposed to"?
Depends on where you get your standards from.
Also depends what you mean by "stand".

Heh... i just noticed. "stand". "standards". huh...

[Trixi]

H came over today. Wanted to ask me face to face if I would go for the online divorce idea.

He told me that he really just wants to be done. That he can either saw his leg off slowly or chop it off all at once, and he just wants to chop it off. I said that there was a third option of getting it operated on and getting physical therapy since legs are important. He countered with "I don't know that I think it is."

I mentioned Retro and he interrupted and said he didn't want to do it. I said that from my perspective (which I recognized was different than his) I thought we could make something of the marriage. He said that he agreed; but doesn't want to do it.

Sort of rehashed some old hurt feelings on both our parts. He checked out a long time ago and now just wants to move on; he is tired of doing "the right thing".

Talked about the bedroom set. I said it seemed a little bit like he wanted to keep the one he bought and he said 'no, you can have it.' I said, "Well, I don't know that I want your "transitional" bed" and he said "I haven't slept in it with anyone. I haven't had sex with anyone, anywhere."

I said "Is that why you are in such a hurry?" and he said "in a way. I want to be able to do what I want to do and not feel bad about it. I'm not saying there is anyone."

I asked him about this "nothing is forever" thing. He was like "well, nothing except love does last forever. This house won't be here forever, those trees won't be here forever, you and I won't be here forever, marriage isn't forever, even divorce isn't forever. People think it is, but it really doesn't have to be. People do get back together. I just don't want to be married right now."

He wants us to be friends and "if getting a divorce takes that from him, then that really sucks for him." He added that he understood that we probably wouldn't be able to be friends right away.

Somewhere in the convo he said "Who knows? You might find someone else. I might find someone else. We both might get together with other people. And then, a couple years down the road we run into eachother and go have a cup of coffee and end up back together. I have no idea what the future holds."

I said that I thought he was too confident that I was always going to be here and he said "not after this, I'm not. I totally get that this is the end for us. That is what I want. A clean break. But after this, no, I don't assume you're going to wait." Oh, and I said that he was spoiled and he agreed (aka cake eating) and he didn't want do that anymore.

I told him that I agreed we needed a break because I am so hurt and I don't trust him to not hurt me. Not because he is a mean person, but because he does hurt me and I am battered and I need to heal. He said that was the other part of his motivation; he is tired of hurting me. He then went down the path of us both healing and getting back together in the future.

That's all I can remember right now. We are supposed to talk nitty-gritty financials when he gets back in Jan. He wants us to celebrate Christmas with DD on the 17th before he leaves for New York. I asked if he and I were exchanging gifts and he said "sure. nothing big, though."

WTF is happening in my life? I guess I should be glad that we're getting along so famously--I just don't understand WHY he won't try to make it work. Well, yes I do. Because he doesn't want to. Simple as that.
Crap.
I am so sad.

[Dom R]

I'm really sorry for you.
I know the pain you are going through. It's horrible.


He seems to think he knows what he wants.

Maybe it's time to give him what he wants.
But on your terms.

Seems like he wants you to be out of his life.
I say it's time to do that.

Get yourself a lawyer. Make him pay for it. Tell him that's the only way you're going to agree to a divorce.
If he whines about "that's too much money".. just tell him that is HIS problem. He's the one that wants the divorce so badly; he has to agree to pay all your legal fees up front.

Once you have the laywer, then tell him, "If you change your mind, and decide that 10 years of marriage is worth something to you after all, I'll be willing to talk about it with you. Otherwise, you can talk to my lawyer. I dont wish to talk to you about anything else."

He wants you out of his life. So, give it to him. pitch black. Once you have the lawyer in place, dont talk to him, dont have him over, dont take his calls... nothing.
For 6 months, if neccessary. 'cause that's what it may take.

He wanted you to "stand up for yourself", remember?

Time to impress him with how well you can stand up for yourself.

[Dom R]

guess I shuld probably write more than that, after writing something as dramatic as that.

you started this off by trying to be as nice to him as you could, when he brought up separation. he moved out.
after you were separated you reached out to him. and he dated other women.
he came back for a little while... you shared yourself with him as much as you could... and he went further away.

maybe it's time to stop doing what isnt working, and do a 180.
What's a 180 from what you've been doing?