UD - you bring up a good point about hope and compassion/forgiveness. I will have to think about that.
Am not having the best of days, but there is no reason for it, except I got out the settlement offer and the original papers from my L and it was upsetting. I'm scared about my financial future and that I will make bad decisions in this settlement. I know I will be fine, but it is a hurdle that I need to work through emotionally. I can't even get the retainer together right now and am not sure how to handle this. The money aspect just overwhelmed me today a little bit......
I was also talking to a friend today - the divorce L that I have mentioned previously. I have not told her about DBing, or in fact any details about my situation because her BF is very good friends with H. In any event, she was talking about H and the fact that he is so stubborn that she thought that even if he did realize that he made a mistake, he would never admit to it. He would just say oh well I made a mistake and now I have to deal with it. Also, the fact that everyone now knows that he wants the D - it would be too embarrassing for him to say he made a mistake - not just to me but to everyone else as well. She was saying this because she was talking about her ex and how he asked her to come back when he realized he made a mistake (she didn't). Also, her BF's ex also did the same thing but he wouldn't take her back.
It has been my concern from the beginning. And her voicing it to me just depressed me a little bit as it confirmed what I have been thinking and feeling about him all along. He has so much pride that I don't envision him ever swallowing it. I think this is why I have always had a concern about DBing to save my marriage. I feel that I have been DBing to save me.....
How does stubborness/pride factor into MLC? Is there a way to get by or through it?
w8ting - OK this is just my take. My h is proud and stubborn. I think it slows them down. Happy Again posted that when the light bulb finally went on NOTHING would have kept him from his wife and kids.
w8ing, the stubborness and pride go hand in hand with MLC. A big part of mlc is denial, and what you said about your H never admitting he made a mistake sounds so much like my W that I would almost think they were related. She will never admit that she is making a mistake, and knowing her as I do, she would think that by admitting the mistake, it would make her look weak in front of all her friends and coworkers. She is a very intelligent and bright person, but right now she seems to be everyone's puppy dog. It seems that whatever her girlfriends tell her right now, it has to be gospel. And I am sure the OM is also helping. In one of our C sessions, she wouldnt admit to the affair with the OM, only that he was a good friend that was helping her. The C said that a good friend would be there to listen not to help her D her H. Last week she wanted to go to a new chinese restaurant in town, as a few of her D friends said that it was the best that they ever had. We went, and I will say that it was ok. My D20 said that it wasnt as good as another that we frequent, and my S18 said the same. It looks as if she is very reliant on whatever her "friends" tell her. I am becoming more aware of the fact that I cant control what she does, but I can control what I do and think. When I start thinking about my sitch, I try very hard to think of something positive, or I stop whatever I am doing and do something else. I still have to have some hope though, b/c if the W really wanted this D, she would be pushing me for some kind of settlement, and at this point nothing has happened. My W also is not very good at the financial end of things, and I know through a few C sessions that she has no clue as to where she will live after the D. Before DB, I told her several times that if she was that unhappy, she could leave anytime. Her response? "I have no place to go." Does this sound like someone who has their s--t together? MLC. Enough said.
But I'm curious...was your wife stubborn and proud pre-MLC? Was Happy Again stubborn and proud pre-MLC?
My H has always been like this. It was a joke between us that he was never wrong when we fought and, if by some chance he was, he would jokingly try and blame me so he could still be right. He was like this pre-MLC - it is just not a condition of his condition.
And, SM - you hit it on the head - he equates being wrong to being weak and he doesn't ever want to be weak. And like your wife, he is extremely intelligent. He wants people to, not only see his point, but agree with him after his argument. He can't imagine people not seeing what he sees or thinking what he thinks...especially after he has explained it to you.
I agree Angelica - I think someone who is normally very proud would have a longer time admitting that he/she made a mistake...if at all. But I need to remember the hope thing....
SM - he is pushing a settlement to me. Once he started this training rolling, he never stopped. Bomb, find an apartment, move out, value the businesses, propose a settlement. It is one thing after another and rapid fire at that.
While my life does not seem hopeless to me (except when I think about it financially), my marriage does.....largely because of this pride issue.
My H has always been like this. It was a joke between us that he was never wrong when we fought and, if by some chance he was, he would jokingly try and blame me so he could still be right. He was like this pre-MLC - it is just not a condition of his condition.
It just got MUCH worse in the run up to MLC. This is my take on it: his underlying confidence [not the mask he wore] was of fragility and uncertainty, but because he is an introvert, and highly intelligent, his uncertainty didn't take the form of bluster and agression.
His father didnt tolerate mistakes - so doing it right, and being right were necessary to survive - that or be a rebel, and my h was the MASTER of the passive agressive. Interestingly in the run up to MLC his politics took a massive lurch to the right - and suddenly we all [the kids and me] had to subscribe to ideas we thought were loopy, and he got annoyed if we didn't. It was as if his identity was completely tied up with his ideas.
Sound familiar? You might find 'The Successful Self' by Dorothy Rowe a useful read, to help understand why your h is currently so dysfunctional.
Well, A.....unfortunately my H has also been self centered, in addition to always being right. He is an extrovert - always likes being the center of attention. As an introvert, it never bothered me. However, there were times that I was embarrassed by him because he would always turn the conversation around to focus on him. My H is the master of verbal sparring. He would bait people into a conversation with him, and then do whatever it took to "win" the discussion.
I paint such a pretty picture of him, don't I? And why do I want him back? The behavior I am describing was not MLC. I remember incidents years and years ago when I would have to pull him aside in a social setting and point out that he was making me and others uncomfortable with what he was doing. He, of course, never saw it that way. I do think that MLC has made it more frequent and worse....
H's father sounds somewhat like your H's.....and I have wondered if any of that is part of this. H wants to please his father, yet they are very different and go about things in a different way. I always have wondered if he feels like he has not lived up to his father's expectations.
w8ing, I could see where might struggle with standing because of your H's personality. Now that being said, this might give you something else to think about...You could say that most in my family could fit the description of being subborn and proud. I have seen crisises (for lack of a better word) in my family (I am talking about parent-child relationships...well, and now my father and his ex-wife) and relationships were severed for years...and then one day, something happens where a reconnection occurs. No one apologizes or admits that they were wrong...in fact, in my family they just go on like nothing happened...not healthy but this does happen. Of course, I'm not saying that this would be what your H would do, but it possibly could be a way he could reconnect with you...never admitting that he was wrong. Could you accept that? If it happened that way, would it be worth it to keep your family intact?
w8ing, have you talked to a C about any of this? It might be helpful.
Hope you are doing better today. You have your kids this weekend right? Are you doing anything fun?
I would go to the resources thread and read on Cinders restored marriages thread - ImliN's post. Her h was pretty much a complete drop out, and so was BND's. I read your post elsewhere that your h had v little contact - it doesn'tnecessarily matter, and in some ways is a whole lot less wearing than the ones that hang 'visiting'.
RCR and Snodderley have a theory about contact or lack of it, which relates to their 'dependency'.
UD - you always give me something to think about. Thank you for always putting the questions out there for me.
It isn't that I would want my H to admit that he is or has been wrong. We both contributed to "wronging" the marriage. I don't need to hear those words from him. And I know that keeping my family intact is more important than hearing those words. On an intellectual level, I believe this.
But if I were honest with myself, I would have to admit that it would be difficult for me to never hear some type of acknowledgement of the pain that he caused with the way he ended everything.
I asked my mom this (for those of you who haven't followed my story, I am a second generation LBS - my dad left my mom in a major MLC - they are back together after a several year separation). My mom said he never apologized, but he did tell her that if he would have divorced her, it would have been the biggest mistake of his life. Honestly, that would be enough for me. But is that too much?
You know, UD, I have never talked to a counselor. I tried in the beginning to find someone and everyone was booked. For me, I think I am doing okay, but I know it is something that I can do if I need to.
I am doing better today. Don't know what it was about yesterday...probably just the overwhelming financial aspect of it all. I have been shuttling the girls around all morning and now we are going Christmas shopping. I had some challenges this morning with D13 that I would have loved another person to bounce some ideas off of, but I handled it. I believe H is seeing his "Biscuit" this weekend because D11 tried to call him and he didn't answer - he only does this when he is there. I am surprisingly unaffected by this.... If I don't think about the financial aspect of everything, I really can see a lot of this pretty clearly.....
Angelica - I am going to read those posts. I think I am also going to reread DR - it has been a while and I remember reading it the first time and feeling pretty upbeat by it. I will also see if I can find the theories you talked about.....
